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  #4701  
Old 13-08-2020, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnsonpen View Post
Starmer is becoming really annoying with a negative view on anything the government does but reporters never ask him what he would have done differently.

Starmer is leader of the opposition, not the proposition.
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  #4702  
Old 13-08-2020, 01:28 PM
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At some stage he’s going to have to propose an alternative. It might not be now, but at the moment he’ll be getting a bump from people thinking he cannot be as bad as Corbyn / Johnson. That will not last for ever because actually no one really knows what his position on anything is, and at some stage that is going to become important.
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  #4703  
Old 13-08-2020, 01:46 PM
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It will.

But like has been said many times. I don't think the middle of a pandemic is the time.

Right now I think he's doing right, by holding the government up to task when he can and picking those battles rightly.

Many people, particularly those who voted Tories first time round, aren't going to want to admit they got it wrong with their votes so Starmer has to tread a bit carefully.

He'll be in a very good position where hopefully he will have a huge list of ****s up that this government has made, and he'll be able to run through them all and carefully pick them off.
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  #4704  
Old 13-08-2020, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tomo View Post
It will.

He'll be in a very good position where hopefully he will have a huge list of ****s up that this government has made, and he'll be able to run through them all and carefully pick them off.
He has that already tbf.
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  #4705  
Old 13-08-2020, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
At some stage he’s going to have to propose an alternative. It might not be now, but at the moment he’ll be getting a bump from people thinking he cannot be as bad as Corbyn / Johnson. That will not last for ever because actually no one really knows what his position on anything is, and at some stage that is going to become important.
Broad policy objectives 2 years before the election, specific policies 6 months before election, 3 cakes with extra cherries 4 weeks before the election.
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  #4706  
Old 13-08-2020, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
Broad policy objectives 2 years before the election, specific policies 6 months before election, 3 cakes with extra cherries 4 weeks before the election.
Why can't he do broad policy objectives and give his vision now? There's mayoral, Scottish, council and probably bi-elections to come so what are Labour party members going to campaign on when go out canvassing? "I'm not Johnson or Corbyn"?
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  #4707  
Old 14-08-2020, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by west country boy View Post
Were there?
Only person I recall was that turncoat Ian Austin

There can't be many sane people who despite being disaffected that would actually choose 5 (at least) years of Boris and co
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  #4708  
Old 14-08-2020, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Why can't he do broad policy objectives and give his vision now? There's mayoral, Scottish, council and probably bi-elections to come so what are Labour party members going to campaign on when go out canvassing? "I'm not Johnson or Corbyn"?
It’s “by(e)-election”. Goodness knows what a “bi-election” would be.
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  #4709  
Old 14-08-2020, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by west country boy View Post
It’s “by(e)-election”. Goodness knows what a “bi-election” would be.
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  #4710  
Old 14-08-2020, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomo View Post
I think pre election the polls were showing 45% Tories, 33% labour, so decent enough progress all things considered. I’d be interested to know how those votes would actually reflect on seats.

I saw a Twitter account suggest that could see as many as 40 seat gains for labour, but with no actual source I’d take that with a pinch of salt.
I can certainly see Labour brickies, rebuilding the red wall, constituency by constituency
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  #4711  
Old 14-08-2020, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
And they can do what they like, since the last Labour leader and his allies led Labour to the worst result since the 1930s.

In that context, the new leader being popular should be a positive. Yet social media is full of Corbynites who want Starmer gone. It’s power in the Labour Party they want, not winning power. Which I think is extraordinary. And all the “look how bad the Tories are” doesn’t help. Labour needs to get its house in order. Get rid of the cranks, any racists, etc, and focus on winning office.
As, I'm assuming, all of us weren't around in the 30's the only thing I can compare it too is the grim reality of 1983.

Whilst laudable to cull the nasties, I don't think it can realistically be done, like a weed or the Hydra there will always be a malignant rogue presence.

I'm sure there is? But surely a signed covenant, for mere councillors, up to Mp's that would hoist them by their own petard would be useful.

Starmers immediate goal should be to cajole and engage with the left, listen to their grievances, try and unite them under a single banner.

In terms of policy, pragmatism should be the name of the game, the questioning and forensic route will win friends.

I see a jaded populace in 2024, bruised, battered, beaten, world weary, skint and in need of change
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  #4712  
Old 14-08-2020, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
Labour need to be credible again. Losing to Boris twice is unforgivable
It's the scale of loss for me, a Corbyn style Footing could well be the end of the party as a relevant force
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  #4713  
Old 14-08-2020, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
And your mob led labour to lose Scotland and probably never getting it back making any outright labour victory very difficult.

In that context 2017 should have been a positive. Yet the labour right machine did their best to make sure that wasn’t built on, with a similar mindset to you.

Then the cliche that the left only want power in labour. It’s a tedious and ridiculous suggestion. They want real change not a tinkering of the status quo with your type of politics and that of Starmer. And it’s not even winning in the polls it’s as bad as the pre election polls. It’s extraordinary.

You just can’t see that your politics post Blair have totally failed but you keep suggesting more of the same.
Not quite for me, a marked difference, no things can only get better happy clapping

No style over substance

No being intwined with those rabble rousers across the pond.

A sensible, alternative, based on fairness, job creation and good reliable public services

Grown up politics, although I think there may be an insular focus at the outset.
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  #4714  
Old 14-08-2020, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Why can't he do broad policy objectives and give his vision now? There's mayoral, Scottish, council and probably bi-elections to come so what are Labour party members going to campaign on when go out canvassing? "I'm not Johnson or Corbyn"?
Well they are the only two policies Labour have left.
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  #4715  
Old 14-08-2020, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by gold76 View Post
As, I'm assuming, all of us weren't around in the 30's the only thing I can compare it too is the grim reality of 1983.

Whilst laudable to cull the nasties, I don't think it can realistically be done, like a weed or the Hydra there will always be a malignant rogue presence.

I'm sure there is? But surely a signed covenant, for mere councillors, up to Mp's that would hoist them by their own petard would be useful.

Starmers immediate goal should be to cajole and engage with the left, listen to their grievances, try and unite them under a single banner.

In terms of policy, pragmatism should be the name of the game, the questioning and forensic route will win friends.

I see a jaded populace in 2024, bruised, battered, beaten, world weary, skint and in need of change
“Hail hydra”
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  #4716  
Old 14-08-2020, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by gold76 View Post
Starmers immediate goal should be to cajole and engage with the left, listen to their grievances, try and unite them under a single banner.
I think your sensible thoughts don't belong in this thread.
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  #4717  
Old 14-08-2020, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
“Hail hydra”
You are such a nasty bit of work.
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  #4718  
Old 14-08-2020, 05:52 PM
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Its a really poor cabinet when you look at the list. A load of has been and no marks with a couple of exceptions, and barely any charisma between them.


Rosena Allin-Khan
Jonathan Ashworth
Nick Brown
Marsha de Cordova
Thangam Debbonaire
Anneliese Dodds
Lord Falconer
Preet Gill
Kate Green
Nia Griffith
Louise Haigh
John Healey
David Lammy
Lord McAvoy
Andy McDonald
Jim McMahon
Ed Miliband
Ian Murray
Lisa Nandy
Bridget Phillipson
Luke Pollard
Angela Rayner
Steve Reed
Rachel Reeves
Jonathan Reynolds
Baroness Smith
Cat Smith
Jo Stevens
Nick Thomas-Symonds
Emily Thornberry
Valerie Vaz
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  #4719  
Old 14-08-2020, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Its a really poor cabinet when you look at the list. A load of has been and no marks with a couple of exceptions, and barely any charisma between them.


Rosena Allin-Khan
Jonathan Ashworth
Nick Brown
Marsha de Cordova
Thangam Debbonaire
Anneliese Dodds
Lord Falconer
Preet Gill
Kate Green
Nia Griffith
Louise Haigh
John Healey
David Lammy
Lord McAvoy
Andy McDonald
Jim McMahon
Ed Miliband
Ian Murray
Lisa Nandy
Bridget Phillipson
Luke Pollard
Angela Rayner
Steve Reed
Rachel Reeves
Jonathan Reynolds
Baroness Smith
Cat Smith
Jo Stevens
Nick Thomas-Symonds
Emily Thornberry
Valerie Vaz
Good effort CR. Whizz round here like a little buzzy bee whipping up disappointment and apathy. It is a bit of a thin list but that's due to you and your ilk shipping out a pile of Labour MPs back in December.

There hasn't been a Labour cabinet minister for 10 years. It's no wonder the current PLP looks a little inexperienced.

3/10 for effort. Particularly with the copying and pasting of the shadow cabinet. That was certainly noteworthy. I noted it.
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  #4720  
Old 14-08-2020, 06:08 PM
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