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  #1601  
Old 04-07-2019, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Problem is, you're presenting the idea of Blair as a good thing that and a return to politics being about different shades of centre-right politics (not to mention stealth taxation, PFI, a massive rise in corporate power, numerous wars and military interventions and all the issues around EU immigratoin etc that led us into the Brexit referendum fiasco).

A centre-right Labour Party, maybe. But going back to the days of New Labour is just going to end up ignoring a number of big serious issues the UK needs to resolve (stagnation of wages, benefit cuts / reforms) etc coupled with 'decreased taxation', increased borrowing and stealth taxation.

Whatever I might think of the Conservative Party, turning Labour into Conservative lite was as damaging to the UK as Thatcherite policys of the 80s - and continued problems inherited from them (Housing Prices for example).
It's a Hobson's choice

I despise the Tories

I despair of Labour (who it's reported today are floundering)

The Libs are intriguing, yet still tarnished by there coalition calamity.

No, Labour have to change, not the Tory lite, but steer clear of this lurch to the left..
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  #1602  
Old 04-07-2019, 12:11 PM
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All of the above need to blow up and new groupings made from the remains
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  #1603  
Old 04-07-2019, 12:21 PM
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No point in any Tory leaders playing the fiscal prudence route. It won't win votes. The public wants lots of extra spending on loads of different things and they don't want to pay more taxes themselves and/or (above all) see their own occupational pensions affected. Might as well promise the earth and if we end up with the IMF at a later date then that will be the problem for their successors. If the Tories try to be fiscally austere then the public will vote for a party that isn't.
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  #1604  
Old 04-07-2019, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gold76 View Post
It's a Hobson's choice

I despise the Tories

I despair of Labour (who it's reported today are floundering)

The Libs are intriguing, yet still tarnished by there coalition calamity.

No, Labour have to change, not the Tory lite, but steer clear of this lurch to the left..
I generally regard this as the reason why politics in the UK is f**ked up and democracy as we present it is a failing concept. Which is to say, if the system can only present a choice of lesser evils, then the system is failing.
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  #1605  
Old 04-07-2019, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
I see Boris has now offered 20,000 more cops. Whatever you think of him he certainly knows what buttons to press.
Of course, he does represent the party that saw a reduction of around the same number of police officers. So what he's actually saying is, we'll return policing to approximately the same level as it was, before we cut it.

Its just all more bulls**t PR and Spin - People are stupid, and easily expolited, and we believe that those who can manipulate the stupid and exploit them will make for good leaders.
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  #1606  
Old 04-07-2019, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I generally regard this as the reason why politics in the UK is f**ked up and democracy as we present it is a failing concept. Which is to say, if the system can only present a choice of lesser evils, then the system is failing.
is that because unlike a few other european countries we don't really take the Greens seriously
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  #1607  
Old 04-07-2019, 09:12 PM
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Lets leave the world’s second largest trading bloc and pick a fight with the world’s second largest economy.

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  #1608  
Old 04-07-2019, 09:19 PM
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This has to play itself out, now, in all its hideous and seemingly boundless stupidity. No use trying to pretty it up.
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  #1609  
Old 05-07-2019, 08:26 AM
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Papers saying Boris not trusted to know all the spooks secrets whilst at the foreign office..

Will soon be running the whole damn show
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  #1610  
Old 05-07-2019, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
is that because unlike a few other european countries we don't really take the Greens seriously
Pretty much, we need greater engagement of political parties outside the stupid notion of dualistic tribalist politics. Smaller parties, even UKIP, have served to demonstrate a significant portion of the population never recieve any representation despite making up a reasonable percentage of support in elections.
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  #1611  
Old 05-07-2019, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gold76 View Post
Papers saying Boris not trusted to know all the spooks secrets whilst at the foreign office..

Will soon be running the whole damn show

Sounds like a reasonable thing by our spooks. Its a dodgy ground, but effectively if you cannot trust the foriegn secretary with intelligence relating to his role, then the problem should really be raised with the PM (who is responsible with appointing them).

Sadly, we live in a world now where a man who wasn't up to the job of foriegn secretary is now considered a reasonable option for Prime Minister. That reflects a serious problem with modern politics. Because if someone who worked for me, couldn't be trusted to do their job, I wouldn't promote them - likely they'd be demoted, dismissed or shuffled off into 'special projects'.

Too often, roles in politics will be assigned to people because of their status, not their capability.
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  #1612  
Old 05-07-2019, 10:56 AM
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So as things stand after the next election the prime minister will be someone who the intelligence agencies don’t trust with intelligence.

Awesome
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  #1613  
Old 05-07-2019, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
So as things stand after the next election the prime minister will be someone who the intelligence agencies don’t trust with intelligence.

Awesome
This country is so ****ed.
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  #1614  
Old 05-07-2019, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Hunt to ban ban on hunting.

Apparently
with the support of Fox?
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  #1615  
Old 05-07-2019, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
So as things stand after the next election the prime minister will be someone who the intelligence agencies don’t trust with intelligence.

Awesome
Actually, someone whom the previous PM didn't trust with intelligence. And yet she appointed him Foreign Secretary...
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  #1616  
Old 05-07-2019, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Hunt to ban ban on hunting.

Apparently
First they gave us f*ck f*ck business

Now they give us ban ban hunting
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  #1617  
Old 05-07-2019, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Sounds like a reasonable thing by our spooks. Its a dodgy ground, but effectively if you cannot trust the foriegn secretary with intelligence relating to his role, then the problem should really be raised with the PM (who is responsible with appointing them).

Sadly, we live in a world now where a man who wasn't up to the job of foriegn secretary is now considered a reasonable option for Prime Minister. That reflects a serious problem with modern politics. Because if someone who worked for me, couldn't be trusted to do their job, I wouldn't promote them - likely they'd be demoted, dismissed or shuffled off into 'special projects'.

Too often, roles in politics will be assigned to people because of their status, not their capability.
There are so many recycled minister's, you fail with one remit, we'll give you another!

They must work on a three strikes and out system, let's call it the Grayling scale
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  #1618  
Old 05-07-2019, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Sounds like a reasonable thing by our spooks. Its a dodgy ground, but effectively if you cannot trust the foriegn secretary with intelligence relating to his role, then the problem should really be raised with the PM (who is responsible with appointing them).
It didn't need to be 'raised' with May - she was the one who thought he couldn't be trusted!
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  #1619  
Old 05-07-2019, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gold76 View Post
Papers saying Boris not trusted to know all the spooks secrets whilst at the foreign office..

Will soon be running the whole damn show
I digress a bit, but bear with me...

I recently read a book by Mick Herron (I don't recall which one, as I've read a few of his in the last year - apparently it is Real Tigers), but there was a character in it that was very much based on Boris Johnson, and he is not very subtle about it.

Oddly enough this was one story lines with this "Boris" character... also he wangled his way into being in line to be Prime Minister by hook or by crook.

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
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  #1620  
Old 05-07-2019, 07:00 PM
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Good book, that.
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