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  #1  
Old 16-09-2021, 10:13 PM
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England team setup urgently needs more women

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Why?

To do what?

Surely it should be best man (ahem!) for the job; I don't care if the whole set up is staffed by women but is this another example of positive discrimination?
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Old 17-09-2021, 06:07 AM
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No it's an example of positive action.
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Old 17-09-2021, 06:30 AM
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Hopefully the first casualty is Southgate.
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Old 17-09-2021, 09:35 AM
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Hopefully the first casualty is Southgate.
I disagree.

In an era of national team apathy, racism and enhanced social media driven criticism heís doing an admirable job both on and off the pitch.

Could do a lot lot worse and I donít trust the powers that be at the FA to appoint anyone better. So the first to go should be the actual people running the sport in this country.
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Old 17-09-2021, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jrnicholson View Post
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Why?

To do what?

Surely it should be best man (ahem!) for the job; I don't care if the whole set up is staffed by women but is this another example of positive discrimination?
Gives Gareth more chance on finding a girlfriend.
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Old 17-09-2021, 09:43 AM
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I disagree.

In an era of national team apathy, racism and enhanced social media driven criticism he’s doing an admirable job both on and off the pitch.

Could do a lot lot worse and I don’t trust the powers that be at the FA to appoint anyone better. So the first to go should be the actual people running the sport in this country.
Maybe off the pitch. He could step down and become an ambassador.

On the pitch, he's a bottle job. I'm grateful for the memories, but i want to see us win a trophy. This squad has the players to slap any team in the world.

With the quality of players at his disposal (and particularly the home advantage this time around), imo, it's back to back failures for Southgate
means he's had a good go and should step aside.

Genuine question, do you think Southgate has it in him to take this team to the next level? I don't.
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Old 17-09-2021, 10:01 AM
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Genuine question, do you think Southgate has it in him to take this team to the next level?
Yes. He took a team which wasn't that successful, brought in a young batch of players who have plenty of time to improve, and has done well so far.

He has been here for one World Cup and one Euros.

In the World Cup we have won once and reached the semis twice. He had our equal second best performance in eighteen attempts (we first entered in 1950 and weren't in FIFA before that).

In the Euros he got us to our only final in sixteen attempts.

If we had loads of star players we could say it was down to them, but we don't. Kane is good but no better than players like Shearer, Rooney, Owen, Lineker. Our defence is nowhere near as good as Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Cole. We don't have midfielders of the quality of Gascoigne, Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham.

He has taken a mediocre bunch of players and done well. Getting as close as we did against Italy is a great performance and shows Southgate can do it as us missing three penalties in a row is more down to the players than him.
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Old 17-09-2021, 10:12 AM
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I still have reservations about southgate but he does have positives too.

My current feeling is he may never get the best out of this group of players but who do/can we bring in that will? He has certainly been a lucky manager at times but I think that luck might be getting him enough time to become good.

Happy enough for him to continue and cant think of too many that would do better that would likely be interested. He is certainly doing a good job at making the squad seem highly likable and reuniting the fans and players.
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Old 17-09-2021, 10:15 AM
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Yes. He took a team which wasn't that successful, brought in a young batch of players who have plenty of time to improve, and has done well so far.

He has been here for one World Cup and one Euros.

In the World Cup we have won once and reached the semis twice. He had our equal second best performance in eighteen attempts (we first entered in 1950 and weren't in FIFA before that).

In the Euros he got us to our only final in sixteen attempts.

If we had loads of star players we could say it was down to them, but we don't. Kane is good but no better than players like Shearer, Rooney, Owen, Lineker. Our defence is nowhere near as good as Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Cole. We don't have midfielders of the quality of Gascoigne, Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham.

He has taken a mediocre bunch of players and done well. Getting as close as we did against Italy is a great performance and shows Southgate can do it as us missing three penalties in a row is more down to the players than him.

Penalties have nothing to do with it. It should never have gone to penalties in the first place.

As for mediocre, you must be kidding. We have an outrageous group of quality players.

Sterling, Sancho, Grealish, Foden, Mount, Rice, Rashford, TAA, Reece James. Even fatboy Luke Shaw, who was brilliant.

Kane, Calvert-Lewin, Trippier, Chillwell. There's some disgusting talent in that squad.


Back to Gareth.

2018 was the easiest run to a Semi in history. He bottled it against the frist average side we played. The Euro's were great, but again, 2-0 up against the Italians and bottling it for 120 minutes is unforgivable, especially when your at home.

Two attempts in enough. Time to try something else. No point falling at the same hurdle every time.
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Old 17-09-2021, 10:15 AM
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Yes. He took a team which wasn't that successful, brought in a young batch of players who have plenty of time to improve, and has done well so far.

He has been here for one World Cup and one Euros.

In the World Cup we have won once and reached the semis twice. He had our equal second best performance in eighteen attempts (we first entered in 1950 and weren't in FIFA before that).

In the Euros he got us to our only final in sixteen attempts.

If we had loads of star players we could say it was down to them, but we don't. Kane is good but no better than players like Shearer, Rooney, Owen, Lineker. Our defence is nowhere near as good as Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Cole. We don't have midfielders of the quality of Gascoigne, Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham.

He has taken a mediocre bunch of players and done well. Getting as close as we did against Italy is a great performance and shows Southgate can do it as us missing three penalties in a row is more down to the players than him.
Mediocre? I'll give you many of the players are still young and improving but the squad is full of talent. Southgate is making them seemingly play better than the wasted era of the players you mention but you can't say he doesnt have a squad full of ability
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Old 17-09-2021, 10:19 AM
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I still have reservations about southgate but he does have positives too.

My current feeling is he may never get the best out of this group of players but who do/can we bring in that will? He has certainly been a lucky manager at times but I think that luck might be getting him enough time to become good.

Happy enough for him to continue and cant think of too many that would do better that would likely be interested. He is certainly doing a good job at making the squad seem highly likable and reuniting the fans and players.
I think he should be kept around to guide the squad through qualifiers/friendlies, before we then throw money at someone to take the reins for a tournament only. Tuchel, Klopp, Pep etc.

It would be a shame to just keep giving Southgate endless opportunities to achieve failure with a group of players that have the quality to win.
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Old 17-09-2021, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe85 View Post
Penalties have nothing to do with it. It should never have gone to penalties in the first place.

As for mediocre, you must be kidding. We have an outrageous group of quality players.

Sterling, Sancho, Grealish, Foden, Mount, Rice, Rashford, TAA, Reece James. Even fatboy Luke Shaw, who was brilliant.

Kane, Calvert-Lewin, Trippier, Chillwell. There's some disgusting talent in that squad.


Back to Gareth.

2018 was the easiest run to a Semi in history. He bottled it against the frist average side we played. The Euro's were great, but again, 2-0 up against the Italians and bottling it for 120 minutes is unforgivable, especially when your at home.

Two attempts in enough. Time to try something else. No point falling at the same hurdle every time.
Genuine question , who else then??

There can't be a long list of managers that could improve on recent major tournament results so you must have one in mind. You surely wouldn't advocate change for change sake when we reached a final
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Old 17-09-2021, 10:25 AM
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Also 2-0 up would have been different but we were 1-0 up and there were 88 minutes left on the clock against a side that had been clearly the best team in the tournament and hadn't lost for over 30 matches.

I can only assume you haven't seen the mess of the last 30 odd years with arguably much stronger squads than what we have now
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Old 17-09-2021, 10:31 AM
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Genuine question , who else then??

There can't be a long list of managers that could improve on recent major tournament results so you must have one in mind. You surely wouldn't advocate change for change sake when we reached a final
Answered above.

Outside that, on a permanent basis, no one really comes to mind. I just don't particularly enjoy celebrating failure... and it was a failure. Half the problem is we're too content with "getting to a final" when we blew the opportunity of a lifetime to win an international trophy on home soil. We bottled it. Gareth showed that he learned nothing from the defeat to Croatia.
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Old 17-09-2021, 10:34 AM
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Also 2-0 up would have been different but we were 1-0 up and there were 88 minutes left on the clock against a side that had been clearly the best team in the tournament and hadn't lost for over 30 matches.

I can only assume you haven't seen the mess of the last 30 odd years with arguably much stronger squads than what we have now
I wouldn't argue they weren't stronger, not even close. Particularly post 2010. I would also argue that opposition squads were far, far stronger (the exception being France).
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Old 17-09-2021, 10:39 AM
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Old 17-09-2021, 10:39 AM
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Why?

To do what?

Surely it should be best man (ahem!) for the job; I don't care if the whole set up is staffed by women but is this another example of positive discrimination?
I'm sure it's 'sensationalised' that way to make a bigger story.

Surely regardless of gender, if there are 100+ roles in the club, then you would want the 100+ best people for the job, what sort of bums, tits or dangly bits the applicant has on their body is neither here nor there.

The emphasis should be on whether gender is restricting the applicants from being represented in the first place, in which case, it's spot on, that does need to change. The best woman for the job should be given an equal opportunity to compete with the best man, or no men at all if none are considered good enough, and then the best overall given the job.

I'm not sure many out there want the best gender specific person to carry out a role if a better person from another gender is available, that seems bonkers (yes, I understand there are bonkers people out there, but surely very few willing to cut their nose off to spite their face). Do you think Gareth would want the best female assistant manager if she happened to be worse than who he has? Not a chance, nor should he.
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Old 17-09-2021, 01:50 PM
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Answered above.

Outside that, on a permanent basis, no one really comes to mind. I just don't particularly enjoy celebrating failure... and it was a failure. Half the problem is we're too content with "getting to a final" when we blew the opportunity of a lifetime to win an international trophy on home soil. We bottled it. Gareth showed that he learned nothing from the defeat to Croatia.
I sort of ignored the pep,klopp,tuchel as a manager to come in for the finals because it's drivel.

I don't even know why I'm responding tbh

And now you've suggested Low. Who has surely been an even bigger "failure" for the last 7 years.

I'm no Southgate backer particularly but if your gna spout off at least have a decent alternative solution.

If you compare the scenes in the UK after reaching the semi in 1990 to this time I don't think you can say we celebrated failure really compared to that. The fact it's only the second time weve ever made a final shows how hard it is . It isn't failure. It's like saying palace failed if they don't get in the top 3
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Old 17-09-2021, 02:01 PM
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My current feeling is he may never get the best out of this group of players but who do/can we bring in that will?
It’s incredibly difficult to suggest England managers, as we just don’t know who that is currently in the club game, or is unemployed would be remotely interested in international management.

For me, 2022 is Southgate’s last chance. That’s not to say that he’s doing a bad job at the moment, but we need to see a convincing display vs a top team that is on form (unlike the Euros final). He also needs to start using the likes of TAA and Sancho, particularly the former.
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Old 17-09-2021, 02:05 PM
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I think he should be kept around to guide the squad through qualifiers/friendlies, before we then throw money at someone to take the reins for a tournament only. Tuchel, Klopp, Pep etc.

It would be a shame to just keep giving Southgate endless opportunities to achieve failure with a group of players that have the quality to win.
I can longer take any of your posts seriously........
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