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  #81  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:10 PM
Steve M Steve M is offline
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There seems to be a lot of generalisations flying around here. Saying that all students are w***ers is like saying all the unemployed are lazy or all people without degrees are thick. Some might be but many aren't

I can categorically say I wouldn't have got my current job without a degree and the huge number of employers doing the milkround clearly shows that a good degree is valued. All major employers have fast track graduate programmes and a degree is more or less essential now to get into law, accountancy, consultancy or investment banking. I use the analytical skills I gained doing chemistry every day.

That said, I think that the explosion in degree-level education has made a lot of students think that they're better than their degree-less elders when they fail to appreciate that if they were 20 years older they probably wouldn't have done a degree either. Many students spend their whole time partying and then whinge about a few easy exams at the end. And the work is easy at most universities these days. The trouble is, many students run away from real learning and knowledge - it's just not what they're interested in.

Steve M.Chem (oxon)
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  #82  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scotty
I just wish the vast majority who do go to uni would pick a course they are actually interested in and actually spend some time studying. You get out of uni what you put in.
The problem is these days is its too easy to get by doing the absolute minimum to pass whilst p*ssing it up the wall for 3 years, this is what gets most people.
Universities are partly to blame, most place a great deal of emphasis on boosting their research ratings while the teaching quality falls.
For most people University experience involves being packed into a massive lecture theatre and being taught the course as if straight from the text book.
University then becomes an extension of school which is perhaps why on a previous post mentioned that a degree is now seen in the same way as O Levels or A Levels were.

You cannot possibly make a judgement as two whether someone is 'better' on the basis of having a degree.
All good points and perhaps the first post to have even mentioned the idea of learning for its own sake, rather than learning so as to get a few more quid in the bank.

Once they cut the grant and brought in loans, it was inevitable that you'd get more and more CMAs churned out by the system.
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  #83  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp

Once they cut the grant and brought in loans, it was inevitable that you'd get more and more CMAs churned out by the system.
You don't know me EWMG, please don't generalise me.
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  #84  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:16 PM
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Budapest Chuckle Brother, I thought if anyone made a comment, it would be odds on to be you.

Students do get a harsh press, however, as we have such a good time, I dont really give a monkeys what other people say.

Jealousy breeds contempt.
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  #85  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:17 PM
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I'm quite surprised to see the depth of feeling being expressed here. Like Feather, my concept of the divide between those who have attended university and those who haven't (or, as they rather poncily term it in Oxford - Town vs Gown) was of the odd bit of idle baiting in a pub situation.

I think I'm someone who could fairly claim to have a foot in both camps. All of you will be aware that I'm not averse to a bit of faux-intellectual peudism - on the other hand I've been self-supporting since I left school and put myself through university by working as a dustman, farm labourer and cheese processor (!) before leaving a few weeks prior to my finals with no degree. This has always left me liable to be 'shot by both sides', although happily I've also felt able to slate the worst examples of both.

At one point I'd just turned down a place at Oxford (partly because of the horrendously inbred beer-swilling, cone-wearing yahoos I met while visiting there) and was getting up at 4am every day to go sweep streets with a violently racist and homophobic Charlton supporter who typically opened the day with a description of how he'd beaten his wife and/or dog the night before. It was not difficult, then, to despise the world.

Point being (sure there was one) that CM_A is being a t0sser, as is Pistike (sorry Steve, first opposition name that sprang to mind!). I doubt that either of them believe their arguments are that widely applicable, but fully recognise they are individually on occasion. I suppose the post count on this thread answers my question before I've asked it, but does anyone actually care that much about the differences between those with degrees and those with extra years of working under their belts?

In my experience it's pretty hard to tell the difference most times, and if either side gets a bit of abuse from time to time who cares? You have to put up with much the same if you're fat, speccy, ginger, blonde, ugly or have one of an infinite multitude of other distinguishing characteristics.
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  #86  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CM_Addicted


You don't know me EWMG, please don't generalise me.
I think he's referring to your seeing university as a way of getting a better job, as opposed to learning being an end in itself.
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  #87  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by g23
You have to put up with much the same if you're fat, speccy, ginger, ugly or have one of an infinite multitude of other distinguishing characteristics.
Oi watchit, that's my missus you're talking about there
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  #88  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CM_Addicted


You don't know me EWMG, please don't generalise me.
But I thought the whole point of this thread YOU put up was that people would come to know you better and, in the words of Dr Hook, love you a little bit more.
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  #89  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp


But I thought the whole point of this thread YOU put up was that people would come to know you better and, in the words of Dr Hook, love you a little bit more.
Oh! Of course it was! Anyone wanna send a little more love my way?!
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  #90  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:32 PM
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  #91  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:33 PM
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Re: University Graduates

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CM_Addicted
I have been incredibly succesful for my age and I can say for sure that uni helped me acheive this. ]


Quote:
Originally posted by CM_Addicted


then it is litterly impossible to get a job in programming.



Sorry - I just found that amusing. Facetious, maybe, but amusing.
I don't have a degree, by the way. I would guess that most of my friends do - I don't know - but they wouldn't feel the need to inform everybody around them of the fact.
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  #92  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by g23 Point being (sure there was one) that CM_A is being a t0sser, as is Pistike (sorry Steve, first opposition name that sprang to mind!). [/B]
Steady on!
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  #93  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:39 PM
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Re: Re: University Graduates

Quote:
Originally posted by FrankieBoy



Sorry - I just found that amusing. Facetious, maybe, but amusing.
I don't have a degree, by the way. I would guess that most of my friends do - I don't know - but they wouldn't feel the need to inform everybody around them of the fact.
The thread was started because of another argument in a different topic. I didn't just come out of the blue with this - although it may have looked that way.
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  #94  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pistike
I did on a different thread.

Now CM_A is ignoring me.

Student wánker!
Well, I can't back you up EVERY time! I generated some collateral damage in an attempt to be even-handed.
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  #95  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:44 PM
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This has become an extraordinarily convoluted argument.

For anyones information it began on another thread when I generalized that openings in the media tend to be limited to graduates and that most of them couldn't use a remote control.
As a consequence Mr CM accused me of be jealous and regretful that I hadn't got a degree, he went onto to say that maybe I could get a well paid job anyway.

Not surprisingly I rather took exception to this as I was merely stating facts from my experience. In the light of my original statement that having a degree is vital in many job markets I find myself surprised that I am having a row with CM when he himself agrees on this subject.

CM, what really sticks in my gizzard is your constant referals as to how well you are doing. Whoopdy F###in Doo, can't you possibly see that your statements are both arrogant and ill thought out.

If you want I'll start scanning in my pay slips for you so we can see who earnt more last year. Ł1,000 bet says I'll win. So in reality each to their own, you choose University and consider it a vital part of your progression good luck. I didn't and it didn't hinder me at all.
To suggest that I envy you and regret that I can't get a good job is just pure unadulerated horse crap.
PS -Hello Jaffa how nice to hear from you again
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  #96  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jaffa

Jealousy breeds contempt.
The day I'm jealous of you Jaffa will be the day I drown myself in my own vomit.
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Old 02-10-2001, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by g23


Well, I can't back you up EVERY time! I generated some collateral damage in an attempt to be even-handed.
No problem I agree, I have been behaving like a right tósser on this thread.
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  #98  
Old 02-10-2001, 06:52 PM
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I left school at 16 with no qualifications, which I wasn't overly concerned about at the time. I got a job (the first of many) and for the next few years did what most of people of that age do (both good and bad).

To cut a long story short(ish) eventually I got fed up with this and a chance meeting with an ex-teacher led to me becoming a 24-year old 'mature' student. Three years later I left Uni with a 2(i) in Geography and Environmental Issues - an achievement that I still feel very proud of. I had a great time there and enjoyed both the lifestyle and the studying.

I now have a career that I almost certainly wouldn't have had I not been to Uni. However, the silly thing is that I am not actually any clever than I was before and would have been to do what I do anyway. Furthermore I found the level of intellectual debate no higher than at any of the factories or shops that I worked in previously. There was also the same proportion of nice people and horrible people as in any other walk of life.

My time at Uni convinced me that taking at least year out after doing A Levels should be compulsory. After a year of working some people may decide not to return to study (not neccessarily a bad thing) while those that do return would probaly appreciate it more.

From an educational point of view I was highly motivated do well and chose a subject that I was interested in (this was also the case with other mature students that I met). Because I had worked for a few years I also had (some) money saved up which meant my debts weren't that much when I left.

My life experience helped in many ways during my course. For one thing, having regularly had to get up 6am and working 40+ hours a week 12 hours of lecturers a week was, frankly, a piece of piss. As a result I got far less stressed out than most other students.

When I left Uni I had both a degree and work experience so I found it relatively easy to get a job.

Another unexpected bonus was that lots of girls seemed to find a 24 year old bloke more 'interesting' than a spotty immature 18 year old

Last edited by firesign; 02-10-2001 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 02-10-2001, 06:53 PM
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Yeah but you're just a fu##in student like the rest of them Pistike
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Old 02-10-2001, 06:56 PM
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CM if a comment that I made on 'she needs space' also inflamed your anger, then I apologise. Me and my mate were just having a good old moan. I haven't really got anything against students and I have a lot of friends who are students, just in out situations we just felt like blaming you lot for the night. I am in fact a student myself although to further my career it was a better option for me to work full time and do my degree on a day release basis which is working really well. I am already at the position and on the money that I would have been in 2 years had I done my degree full time (Which annoys a lot of the graduates) and already have 3 years of experience under my belt which I wouldn't have had I done it full time. Also I like the fact that when I complete my degree I will have Ł+15000 in my accounts rather than Ł-15000

Don't really know why I have just told you that so I will leave it there.

Last edited by NRM the 2nd; 02-10-2001 at 06:58 PM.
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