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  #101721  
Old 15-03-2019, 04:27 PM
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  #101722  
Old 15-03-2019, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Blue Eagle View Post
From the Guardian feed....

DUP and government discussing role of Stormont - report

Much of the talks between the DUP and the government are revolving around the role of the Northern Ireland Assembly - which is currently suspended - in the event of the backstop being used.

Thatís according to UTVís Political Editor, Ken Reid.

If the role of the assembly is being discussed, thatís quite new and potentially separate from the question of whether or not the backstop will need to be used, and whether it is time limited. Are they ready to jump?


That is a huge unicorn seeing as the assembly has been dormant for two years with no sign of reopening. Also opens up huge issues regarding Welsh and Scottish assemblies I would think - but then again they arenít propping up Mrs May so she couldnt give a toss about them could she.
I listened to the the World at One today which was broadcasting from the Irish border. It struck me that if the border issue is not dealt with in minute detail with 100% approval from both sides of both the border and the political divide then we are heading for confrontation that will make "The Troubles" look like a tea-party.

I concluded that we should have perhaps thought about a vote on unification in NI before we went for the Brexit vote. If the vote was to stay part of the UK then the Brexit referendum should have been scrapped. If unification was the decision then we could have had the vote, and EU withdrawal could have been agreed in a matter of days?
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  #101723  
Old 15-03-2019, 04:42 PM
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Detail on the bribe to the DUP .... offered to an Assembly that hasn’t sat for two years and is showing no signs at all of resuming...

There had been a “constructive dialogue” between the DUP and the government, said the party’s deputy leader, Nigel Dodds following his talks with the attorney general and ministers.

He added that the talks would continue to also focus on the issue of the so-called ‘Stormont Lock’ and how it can be provided for.

The lock in question relates to a series of assurances on Northern Ireland and its place in the UK, which the government published in January.

Those commitments give a restored Northern Ireland Assembly at Stormont - which has not sat for two years - a say on any future laws that the European Union may pass if the backstop comes into force.

A government paper promised that this “Stormont lock” on the backstop would be a legally binding commitment.

However, the DUP immediately rejected the paper when it was first put forward in January, dashing hopes that the party would get behind May for the first vote on her Brexit deal.
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  #101724  
Old 15-03-2019, 05:57 PM
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I donít know who is annoying me more. The houses of Parliament or Southgate.
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  #101725  
Old 15-03-2019, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
I totally echo this.

I too am struggling currently to understand things fully.

Reassuring to know I am not alone.
It's quite simple really.

Originally Posted by weltklasse
"So Cameron made yet another stupid assumption. The fact that politicians voted to invoke article 50 without a coherent plan or strategy only makes those that did worth of disdain."

Politicians in self-serving cock-up shocker.
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  #101726  
Old 15-03-2019, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by James View Post
I wonder what the special place in Hell looks like for such politicians?
SJC...
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  #101727  
Old 15-03-2019, 10:26 PM
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I think she's going to get her deal through.

Her tactic has been to say to the remained/soft Brexit supporters 'back me or get no deal' while simultaneously saying to the hard Brexiteers 'back me or lose Brexit'. Until now, that tactic has failed because what each side has heard the bit not aimed at them and thought we can have what we really want.

But now Parliament has blocked off one route (no deal) so the hard Brexiteers are just desperately looking for a way to back down gracefully, whilst too many other MPs think that 'honouring' a ill-advised, corrupt referendum is more important than doing the right thing for the country.
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  #101728  
Old 15-03-2019, 11:10 PM
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Or they collapse the government at the very last minute.
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  #101729  
Old 16-03-2019, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
whilst too many other MPs think that 'honouring' a ill-advised, corrupt referendum is more important than doing the right thing for the country.
This is the thing that possibly baffles me the most. If respecting the will of the winning side is such an important part of our democracy, why do oppositions routinely vote against governments? By the logic of the argument, Labour should spend the entire parliament supporting Tory policies on Universal Credit, NHS funding, etc, because that was the will of the people expressed at the general election. But they don't - and no one suggests that they should. So why do MPs feel the need to support a Brexit which is clearly going to be significantly against the country's interest just because of a narrow referendum result based on, essentially, lies?
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  #101730  
Old 16-03-2019, 08:28 AM
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Honouring the will of the people is so important but not important enough to see if it is still the will of the people
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  #101731  
Old 16-03-2019, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
Honouring the will of the people is so important but not important enough to see if it is still the will of the people
That is because.....this video explains it all...


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  #101732  
Old 16-03-2019, 08:40 AM
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I don’t get it. I live in Denmark. It’s not that easy to get into this country, and even if you are an EU citizen you have to be able to support yourself or you are back in three months. You can’t just claim stuff. What is so different about the UK that anyone can get in and claim indefinately - it can’t he an EU rule, otherwise it would govern here as well.
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  #101733  
Old 16-03-2019, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
I donít get it. I live in Denmark. Itís not that easy to get into this country, and even if you are an EU citizen you have to be able to support yourself or you are back in three months. You canít just claim stuff. What is so different about the UK that anyone can get in and claim indefinately - it canít he an EU rule, otherwise it would govern here as well.
The UK has that law available to it but chooses not to use it
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  #101734  
Old 16-03-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
The UK has that law available to it but chooses not to use it

And that is clearly the fault of the EU.
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  #101735  
Old 16-03-2019, 08:54 AM
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Just watching F1 qualifiers. Good picture of British supporters wielding a big union flag with the words ĎSod Brexití blazoned across it. Going out to a worldwide audience. Nice one.
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  #101736  
Old 16-03-2019, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
I think she's going to get her deal through.

Her tactic has been to say to the remained/soft Brexit supporters 'back me or get no deal' while simultaneously saying to the hard Brexiteers 'back me or lose Brexit'. Until now, that tactic has failed because what each side has heard the bit not aimed at them and thought we can have what we really want.

But now Parliament has blocked off one route (no deal) so the hard Brexiteers are just desperately looking for a way to back down gracefully, whilst too many other MPs think that 'honouring' a ill-advised, corrupt referendum is more important than doing the right thing for the country.
Parliament has not blocked off no deal, as it is still the default legal position. We have had two no deal votes now passed in the house, and May has completely ignored the first one, and if it suits will ignore the second one too. To stop a no deal she needs to pass a statutory legal instrument through parliament that would take at least a day of debate and procedure, and she hasn't initiated such a move so far.

There are 20 hard core ERG members who said after the second vote on Tuesday that they will not vote for the deal if it comes back for a third vote under ANY circumstances. What the arithmetic turns out to be in this case is not yet predictable, and even if the DUP are eventually on side, there are unkown numbers of quitter Labour MPs who may decide to ignore the whip and support the deal at the cliff edge moment. To pass the deal she will need at least 75 or more to switch sides.
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  #101737  
Old 16-03-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorsEdge View Post
That is because.....this video explains it all...


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Hits the nail on the head!
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  #101738  
Old 16-03-2019, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
Parliament has not blocked off no deal, as it is still the default legal position. We have had two no deal votes now passed in the house, and May has completely ignored the first one, and if it suits will ignore the second one too. To stop a no deal she needs to pass a statutory legal instrument through parliament that would take at least a day of debate and procedure, and she hasn't initiated such a move so far.

There are 20 hard core ERG members who said after the second vote on Tuesday that they will not vote for the deal if it comes back for a third vote under ANY circumstances. What the arithmetic turns out to be in this case is not yet predictable, and even if the DUP are eventually on side, there are unkown numbers of quitter Labour MPs who may decide to ignore the whip and support the deal at the cliff edge moment. To pass the deal she will need at least 75 or more to switch sides.
75 should be on, with the DUP and ERG. I see it the way Steve does. Both those groups know they represent views which are minority in the HoC and in the country, and will certainly not want indicative votes, more debate or a people' vote. This is the hardest Brexit possible.
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  #101739  
Old 16-03-2019, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
75 should be on, with the DUP and ERG. I see it the way Steve does. Both those groups know they represent views which are minority in the HoC and in the country, and will certainly not want indicative votes, more debate or a people' vote. This is the hardest Brexit possible.
To repeat what we actually can predict today with current information. There are 10 DUP MPs who might switch, and we know that McVey has switched, so that is eleven, but not enough to overturn the 20 ERG's who are not going to switch. As I said it will be the unknowns that will make the difference on the day, so May is still potentially going to lose again, and for anyone who says otherwise is purely guessing or suffering from depression.
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  #101740  
Old 16-03-2019, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
I donít get it. I live in Denmark. Itís not that easy to get into this country, and even if you are an EU citizen you have to be able to support yourself or you are back in three months. You canít just claim stuff. What is so different about the UK that anyone can get in and claim indefinately - it canít he an EU rule, otherwise it would govern here as well.
Well what you have to understand is that most of the complaints brexiters have are actually issues due to domestic policy and not the EU.

This has been explained to them many times but for some reason they prefer to be wilfully ignorant. Or dumb.
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