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  #41  
Old 08-05-2015, 03:55 PM
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The investment from the social fund that deprived areas like the Southwest, Scotland the North East, lots of projects have been funded by Europe.

You are right though Mat, those of us who want to stay in need to campaign on the positive rather than suggesting all those who want out are racist etc
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  #42  
Old 08-05-2015, 04:20 PM
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Jean-Claude Juncker 'we are ready to work with Cameron to strike a fair deal for UK'
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  #43  
Old 08-05-2015, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by palacea View Post
Jean-Claude Juncker 'we are ready to work with Cameron to strike a fair deal for UK'
I think it will be extremely embarrassing for the EU if the UK votes to leave. Now a referendum is going to happen the EU may well bend over backwards to keep the UK in the EU in the same way we did to keep Scotland a part of the UK.
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  #44  
Old 08-05-2015, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by civil eagle View Post
The investment from the social fund that deprived areas like the Southwest, Scotland the North East, lots of projects have been funded by Europe.

You are right though Mat, those of us who want to stay in need to campaign on the positive rather than suggesting all those who want out are racist etc
Lots of projects have been funded by Europe?

That's good news - where do they get the money to fund such benevolence for the regions?
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  #45  
Old 08-05-2015, 05:14 PM
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So UKIP got more of the vote than SNP and Lib Dems combined. Bit of a message there on Europe.

Cue bun fight between the big parties for the souls of these voters and possibly a shot across Brussels now.

12% of the vote is difficult to ignore
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  #46  
Old 08-05-2015, 05:19 PM
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As with the Scottish referendum, anyone wanting out who is simultaneously trying to claim it won't seriously hurt the country is an absolute loon.

Unfortunately if the Scottish referendum taught us anything it's that facts really aren't that relevant.
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  #47  
Old 08-05-2015, 05:23 PM
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Farage is actually an EU agent provocateur.
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  #48  
Old 09-05-2015, 02:49 AM
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Wouldn't the campaign split the gov? The cabinet will be campaigning for IN alongside whoever is running Labour but the Tory backbenchers will be demanding to be allowed to campaign for OUT and if the whips or Tory HQ attempt to stop them they'll throw a hissy fit and threaten to join UKIP.

I think people forget how much this issue damaged Major's government.
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  #49  
Old 09-05-2015, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
So money should be at the heart of every political decision ? We are a major global economy. The Germans still want to sell us their cars and we are a net importer from the EU. They will not want to get into a pissing war with us over trade, no matter how much the scare mongers want to convince you they would.

No, the issue is about national sovereignty. Westminster or Brussels. The choice is really that simple.

Also this. For those of you who bang on, with a lot of justification, about how powerful corporate bodies are then remember that they want you to stay in the EU. The multi-nationals love the EU. So a vote to stay in is a vote for them as well.
Agree with this and we should be ruled by Westminster only it's our island , feel no connection to Europe at all our culture is different , time zone, currency, driving on left etc etc. the Europeans will never stop trading with us and it's plain silly to suggest otherwise imo.
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  #50  
Old 09-05-2015, 04:27 AM
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This will cause massive civil war within the Tory ranks. Can't wait!
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  #51  
Old 09-05-2015, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dim View Post
Lots of projects have been funded by Europe?

That's good news - where do they get the money to fund such benevolence for the regions?
From tax payers across the whole of the member states
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  #52  
Old 09-05-2015, 06:22 AM
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Lets 'ave it !




(although I suspect I will be on the losing side but c'est la vie, its all about the journey !)
I would rather have a referendum in England about detaching ourselves from those deluded bunch north of the wall.
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  #53  
Old 09-05-2015, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
As with the Scottish referendum, anyone wanting out who is simultaneously trying to claim it won't seriously hurt the country is an absolute loon.

Unfortunately if the Scottish referendum taught us anything it's that facts really aren't that relevant.
Surely detaching England from Scotlandvwould be a benefit to England financially
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  #54  
Old 09-05-2015, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by kolinkins View Post
Hopefully some stipulation that only people who understand the benefits of being in and the pitfalls of being out (and the opposite too) are allowed to vote

Sadly, most of the "out" votes will originate from little islanders.
What a great idea have a democracy that decides who can and who can't vote I think this is brilliant and seems to work very well in China.
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  #55  
Old 09-05-2015, 06:47 AM
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I would rather have a referendum in England about detaching ourselves from those deluded bunch north of the wall.
Splendid point

Especially given they bottled it 6 months ago with the No vote yet voted in the SNP overwhelmingly 6 months later. Best of both worlds springs to mind.

Well they can have their independence for me or even full devolution. But don't come running back when the money runs out
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  #56  
Old 09-05-2015, 06:51 AM
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Not sure what has been posted that provokes you so. You don't want people educated on a specific matter being the ones who actually decide on it?

I think the whole idea of a referendum is ridiculous. Why else do we elect politicians other than to have people to make these decisions? Why not just scrap parliament and have Joe Ignorant Public decide everything by text vote?
Over 12% of the country voted for a party whose sole aim was to get us out of Europe another party added the referendum to its manifesto saying they would had a referendum because their extensive research said that this is what the people of this nation wanted and as you say they need to make decisions and they do but the decisions that they make need to be the ones that their electorate want.

I fail to see why you think that this is ridiculous other than you feel that your are more intelligent than the majority of people who will vote and therefore they should not be allowed to have any say in their future because they are too dumb. There are people with far more intelligence than you who know far more about this than you that want out, because people do not agree with you does not mean that they should not have a say which is what you are suggesting. I think that I'd you were to have an intelligence based criteria to vote that if you can't understand why it is necessary to have this that you should not be allowed to vote as the reason we need this is far easier to see than whether we should vote in or out.

I honestly don't know which way I would vote at present I lean towards staying in but I will wait what I am sure of is that our nation should have a vote on who governs them we should have had it before Blair signed that agreement.mideallynlove to stay in a trade agreement but have nothing to do with governing, a eu parliament and should not give them anything more than a peppercorn contribution. We need to be able to govern ourselves my father, my fathers father etc have fought for us to be able to do this so for politicians to hand this over with out asking the nation is wrong very wrong.

It does annoy me that soc.libs love democracy until they don't think that they will get their own way
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  #57  
Old 09-05-2015, 07:44 AM
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I think it will be extremely embarrassing for the EU if the UK votes to leave. Now a referendum is going to happen the EU may well bend over backwards to keep the UK in the EU in the same way we did to keep Scotland a part of the UK.
This is my view.
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  #58  
Old 09-05-2015, 07:55 AM
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What are the opinion polls saying? Cos surely they are the most accurate gauge

Anyways I am sure we will all be well advised on here by those "in the know" those "experienced" posters and the bbs intellectual elite, and then we vote whatever way we were gonna vote anyways.
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  #59  
Old 09-05-2015, 08:09 AM
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We need to burst the boil and have a proper debate about our EU membership.

I'm sure it will be messy, and especially tricky for the Tories.

But both sides can take this as an opportunity to demonstrate their case, in and out.

I agree with some posters that the pro-EU side should stop trying to shut down this debate...too often discussion descends into name calling (you're racist or a Little Englander). Possibly some are, but that's a ridiculous statement to throw at millions of people who have voted this week for a referendum to occur.

For me, I see pros and cons of our EU membership and welcome debate from all interested parties...eg CBI, NFU, companies, banks, judiciary, BMA, etc.

Let's hear some facts to back up the sweeping statements made by both sides.

And my feedback to posters on here is that those who quickly descend into name calling come across to me as the ones with the weakest argument to support their case.
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by orp pisshead1 View Post
Agree with this and we should be ruled by Westminster only it's our island , feel no connection to Europe at all our culture is different , time zone, currency, driving on left etc etc. the Europeans will never stop trading with us and it's plain silly to suggest otherwise imo.
its our island - thats classic is anyone trying to take our island away? No.

our culture is certainly linked to european culture

if we do leave the europeans will extract a price from us to continue to trade with them. The important point would be if you think thats a price worth paying and that is something that requires serious thought as opposed to a knee jerk response.
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