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  #41  
Old 01-12-2015, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Russell Nash View Post
Not sure the key issue of religion is tolerance. It should be why in the 21st century various religious groups are still peddling fairy tales to frighten people into subservience.
I trust you can see the ironic dissonance between those two sentences. IT's not too hard to Judge.
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  #42  
Old 01-12-2015, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Chocky View Post
Do Jews not get it yet that we are supposed to have foreskins? It's sick to have a surgeon take a knife to a new born baby's genitals in the name of religion.
Muslamics do that too. And neither of them eat bacon. And they both talk funny. I'm yet to be convinced that there is actually a difference between Muzzies and the Jew.

Although I've seen a Muzzie buy a round in the pub before.
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  #43  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Selhurst Celtic View Post
Muslamics do that too. And neither of them eat bacon. And they both talk funny. I'm yet to be convinced that there is actually a difference between Muzzies and the Jew.

Although I've seen a Muzzie buy a round in the pub before.
Before what? The bomb went off! Aahh ha ha ha. I know they'd be laughing with me on that one. Dry sense of humour that lot.
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  #44  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Russell Nash View Post
Not sure the key issue of religion is tolerance. It should be why in the 21st century various religious groups are still peddling fairy tales to frighten people into subservience.

Now we can view religion in many ways and we can accept peoples right to believe whatever they wish but in the final analysis religion is and always has been a a way for the few to manipulate the many and it does so by using fear and separation. People's need and right to believe is taken advantage of by those who wish to maintain their own influence and the prosperity of the religious organisation itself.

We cannot hide this reality by crying intolerance every time someone raises an objection. It is ultimately people's freedoms that are limited by organised religion, not upheld by it.
Nicely put! Religion has always been used as a way of controlling people.
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  #45  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I trust you can see the ironic dissonance between those two sentences. IT's not too hard to Judge.
I had to look up the word "dissonance" and having done so, I still don't understand your post.
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  #46  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Russell Nash View Post
I had to look up the word "dissonance" and having done so, I still don't understand your post.
"peddling fairy tales"


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doesn’t entail abandoning a critique of religion. But it does mean adopting a certain humility when coming to terms with why ordinary people believe the things they do.
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If you don’t believe in God, that’s great. But you’re not helping by being a jerk about it.
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  #47  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CT_Palace View Post
"peddling fairy tales"


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So we criticise a man for stating an opinion.

Richard Dawkins is a leading light in the fight against ignorance and religious mythology. It has become popular to attack him at every opportunity. This is a sure sign he is hitting the peddlers of fairy tales where it hurts.
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  #48  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Russell Nash View Post
So we criticise a man for stating an opinion.

.
No we don't criticize a man for stating an opinion, we criticize a man for the way he states his opinion.
Based on previous form I wouldn't expect you to know the difference though.
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  #49  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Russell Nash View Post
Not sure the key issue of religion is tolerance. It should be why in the 21st century various religious groups are still peddling fairy tales to frighten people into subservience.

Now we can view religion in many ways and we can accept peoples right to believe whatever they wish but in the final analysis religion is and always has been a a way for the few to manipulate the many and it does so by using fear and separation. People's need and right to believe is taken advantage of by those who wish to maintain their own influence and the prosperity of the religious organisation itself.

We cannot hide this reality by crying intolerance every time someone raises an objection. It is ultimately people's freedoms that are limited by organised religion, not upheld by it.
There is not an original thought in this post.

I would say that while I could argue my point as to why I believe in God, you couldn't cite to me why you don't (Admittedly, it would be a futile and pointless debate. Each person experiences their own path). You will refer me to well known atheists and their opinions, but you yourself will possess no knowledge of what they have based their personal conclusions on.

Your personal conclusion is "Religion is bollocks" and that's probably the extent of your argument. Your views are shaped by the society we live in, your own personal experiences and your own partiality to certain information. Around 200, 300, a 1000 years ago, I have no doubt you would have been a Christian zealot, on par with Mat Ov (). Today, you are simply going with the status quo, as you would have done back then.

Considering the way the world is now and the influences on societies across the world, and especially with the lack of regard for religion in the West, it's actually interesting to see that people of faith are still so numerous despite these influences. If anything, in a society like ours, I would argue that it is they who have staved off a vast amount of societal indoctrination. What is "good" today, will be "bad" tomorrow.

From a religious perspective, each of us will account to our creator as to why we behaved as we did.

Should you meet your maker, what would be your defence for your condescension and mockery?

Richard Dawkins said so? He won't be in any fit state to back you up, too busy being burnt to a crisp.
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  #50  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CT_Palace View Post
No we don't criticize a man for stating an opinion, we criticize a man for the way he states his opinion.
Based on previous form I wouldn't expect you to know the difference though.
Dawkins style is not fore everyone but that is a matter of taste.

His message is way more important than his style. Sometimes you have to be controversial to be heard above the drone of inane chatter.
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  #51  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Kipungu View Post
There is not an original thought in this post.

I would say that while I could argue my point as to why I believe in God, you couldn't cite to me why you don't (Admittedly, it would be a futile and pointless debate. Each person experiences their own path). You will refer me to well known atheists and their opinions, but you yourself will possess no knowledge of what they have based their personal conclusions on.

Your personal conclusion is "Religion is bollocks" and that's probably the extent of your argument. Your views are shaped by the society we live in, your own personal experiences and your own partiality to certain information. Around 200, 300, a 1000 years ago, I have no doubt you would have been a Christian zealot, on par with Mat Ov (). Today, you are simply going with the status quo, as you would have done back then.

Considering the way the world is now and the influences on societies across the world, and especially with the lack of regard for religion in the West, it's actually interesting to see that people of faith are still so numerous despite these influences. If anything, in a society like ours, I would argue that it is they who have staved off a vast amount of societal indoctrination. What is "good" today, will be "bad" tomorrow.

From a religious perspective, each of us will account to our creator as to why we behaved as we did.

Should you meet your maker, what would be your defence for your condescension and mockery?

Richard Dawkins said so? He won't be in any fit state to back you up, too busy being burnt to a crisp.
It certainly isn't, but I would not bother to argue with a believer because argument involves rational reasoning and there is none in religion. Therefore it is pointless. I would only say that your faith is an example of how powerful religious indoctrination is because I'm sure you are an intelligent person.
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  #52  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Russell Nash View Post
His message is way more important than his style. Sometimes you have to be controversial to be heard above the drone of inane chatter.
. It's not controversial to describe religion as 'fairytales'.

It just betrays a lack of understanding of the language, of the nature of religion, and of history. What you call controversial I call ignorant. That's all.
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  #53  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:47 PM
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. It's not controversial to describe religion as 'fairytales'.

It just betrays a lack of understanding of the language, of the nature of religion, and of history. What you call controversial I call ignorant. That's all.
Semantics is only a way to avoid the real issues and I think you know that.
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  #54  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:49 PM
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Words matter.
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Kipungu View Post
There is not an original thought in this post.

I would say that while I could argue my point as to why I believe in God, you couldn't cite to me why you don't (Admittedly, it would be a futile and pointless debate. Each person experiences their own path). You will refer me to well known atheists and their opinions, but you yourself will possess no knowledge of what they have based their personal conclusions on.

Your personal conclusion is "Religion is bollocks" and that's probably the extent of your argument. Your views are shaped by the society we live in, your own personal experiences and your own partiality to certain information. Around 200, 300, a 1000 years ago, I have no doubt you would have been a Christian zealot, on par with Mat Ov (). Today, you are simply going with the status quo, as you would have done back then.

Considering the way the world is now and the influences on societies across the world, and especially with the lack of regard for religion in the West, it's actually interesting to see that people of faith are still so numerous despite these influences. If anything, in a society like ours, I would argue that it is they who have staved off a vast amount of societal indoctrination. What is "good" today, will be "bad" tomorrow.

From a religious perspective, each of us will account to our creator as to why we behaved as we did.

Should you meet your maker, what would be your defence for your condescension and mockery?

Richard Dawkins said so? He won't be in any fit state to back you up, too busy being burnt to a crisp.
One has to wonder why you are required to defend such actions to an all knowing, all seeing enlightened deity who's mantra is love and forgiveness...

...and viscous, unrelenting vengeance.

Still, i have no issue with anyone believing in a divine, greater being living in the clouds. I don't even wonder why. I take umbrage with the evil act of peddling fairy tales to children as fact under the pretext that rejecting it will see you book at ticket to eternity in a fiery inferno.

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!”
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  #56  
Old 01-12-2015, 06:58 PM
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If you an atheist and you are worried about going to heaven or hell then you have too much time on your hands. In general I find militant atheists the most likely to sneer at the views of others so in general you are better off avoiding a collection of them.
What is a militant atheist?

Was it one of those guys who was standing outside a church last week I saw with a placard saying down with religion, along with the rest of his radicle group shouting and harassing vicars and priests?
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:09 PM
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It certainly isn't, but I would not bother to argue with a believer because argument involves rational reasoning and there is none in religion. Therefore it is pointless...
This is a true and a very important point. Experience on the BBS with previous religious threads, some of which I have started myself, prove this point conclusively for me.

I was a believer, quite an avid believer once in a personal god, but one day, I had the luxury of time and motivation to revisit that belief. My belief changed to non-belief. Like those that Kipungu mentioned that have different paths to belief, my path was to non-belief.
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:12 PM
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What is a militant atheist?

Was it one of those guys who was standing outside a church last week I saw with a placard saying down with religion, along with the rest of his radicle group shouting and harassing vicars and priests?
Those who not only chose to make the case that there is not a God and argue their point with respect to others with a different view but who also feel the need to sneer and ridicule those who choose to be religious on a regular basis. Or those who not only argue there case there isn't a religion but spend plenty of time actively seeking out ways to sneer at those with religious views. For me, each to their own and I don't seek to proselytise or sneer at the views of others.
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:15 PM
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. My belief changed to non-belief. Like those that Kipungu mentioned that have different paths to belief, my path was to non-belief.
And that's absolutely fine, and I am happy for you.

It's the atheists' need to preach their conversion to the new faith, and to sneer at those who used to be like them, that is frankly irritating.
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:27 PM
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Those who not only chose to make the case that there is not a God and argue their point with respect to others with a different view but who also feel the need to sneer and ridicule those who choose to be religious on a regular basis. Or those who not only argue there case there isn't a religion but spend plenty of time actively seeking out ways to sneer at those with religious views. For me, each to their own and I don't seek to proselytise or sneer at the views of others.
So using the extreme word "militant" for people merely expressing a view that you don't agree with, and doing it like Jeremy Paxman, is acceptable?

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I think people on here would appreciate more restrained use of the English language, in the interests of accuracy and true meaning.
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