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  #21  
Old 08-12-2015, 04:24 PM
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A cake sale?

Stop paying Frazier Campbell, that would raise a few billion a year, with no downside (apart from Mrs Campbell and the kids)
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  #22  
Old 08-12-2015, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by switchboard View Post
If everyone started working less hours and more people worked to cover those lost hours, then we'd all have more free time and a better quality of life outside those working hours... on paper.
Yep i could cut down to 2 nights instead of 4 sounds good to me.
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  #23  
Old 08-12-2015, 04:27 PM
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It's a good idea that's been knocking around lefty circles for years and is back in vogue as a way to spread the wealth in a hi tech world where ownership takes a bigger slice of the pie and jobs are temporary. Wouldn't be surprised if Corbyn is toying with it and I think the Greens back it. It could slash admin costs, end the stigma of benefits and there is evidence it increases employment and therefore growth and the tax take. Obviously the crucial thing is what rate it is set at.
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  #24  
Old 08-12-2015, 04:28 PM
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We need 386bn.

We've got cost cutting of 195bn (benefits and basic state pensions) and 5bn of additional tax. So that's about 200bn, and the proceeds from a cake sale.

We're 186bn per annum short.

It better be an awesome cake sale.
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  #25  
Old 08-12-2015, 04:29 PM
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It better be an awesome cake sale.
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  #26  
Old 08-12-2015, 04:30 PM
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What about if we pay it only to people earning over 50,000 a year?
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  #27  
Old 08-12-2015, 04:48 PM
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Or people over the age of 30.......
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  #28  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:01 PM
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Something needs to be done because there is a generation growing up with no spare income to pay into a pension at all. I remember my grandad sitting me down when I got my first job telling me to put a third of my salary in a pension, a third of my salary gone would leave me short of paying the rent let alone anything else! Even now there is no free money to put anything actually worth while away.
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  #29  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
We need 386bn.

We've got cost cutting of 195bn (benefits and basic state pensions) and 5bn of additional tax. So that's about 200bn, and the proceeds from a cake sale.

We're 186bn per annum short.

It better be an awesome cake sale.
39bn to come back in VAT?
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  #30  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
We need 386bn.

We've got cost cutting of 195bn (benefits and basic state pensions) and 5bn of additional tax. So that's about 200bn, and the proceeds from a cake sale.

We're 186bn per annum short.

It better be an awesome cake sale.
Wouldn't a lot of people receiving it be effectively paying 20/40/50 % of it back in tax? Maybe 140 billion per annum short now?
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  #31  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:33 PM
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Just do it. You don't need to find the money if you are in charge of the money.

Give them the money and if it causes inflation just keep adding noughts until we get over the whole caboodle.
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  #32  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:34 PM
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Daft idea, why should the state give me money I don't really need.
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  #33  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
We need 386bn.

We've got cost cutting of 195bn (benefits and basic state pensions) and 5bn of additional tax. So that's about 200bn, and the proceeds from a cake sale.

We're 186bn per annum short.

It better be an awesome cake sale.

Other things to consider:

reduction of social externalities arising from long term unemployment. ie. health issues -> reduction of costs for NHS. Reduction in crime -> reduced costs for police.
Tax increase for the most well off
removal of tax credits
The money is going to get spent -> more tax income
Reduction in inequality leading to economic growth -> higher tax receipts/reduction of gov debt as share of GDP

That's just 2 minutes of head scratching. It's definitely not a case of definitely not being affordable. It is better in my opinion to evaluate the positive and negative impacts on society and then see if it can be afforded.
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  #34  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swissroll View Post
Wouldn't a lot of people receiving it be effectively paying 20/40/50 % of it back in tax? Maybe 140 billion per annum short now?
I think it is generally accepted that the basic income should not be taxed. However it could come with increases in the tax rates for some which of course could mean someone earning 200k is not better off with basic income
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  #35  
Old 08-12-2015, 07:54 PM
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i haven't read anything about it but I receive zero benefits and it sounds like I would suddenly start receiving an amount of money.

I cannot see how that is sensible as I have no need of state support whatsoever.
We get it, you're rich.
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  #36  
Old 08-12-2015, 08:24 PM
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We get it, you're rich.
Assume most people would spend it on luxuries rather than essentials. Assume if you were using it on essentials you would already be claiming some kind of benefits.
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  #37  
Old 08-12-2015, 08:44 PM
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I suspect this is one of those ideas like a flat tax that sounds good until you look at the details closely. Still it may be that given the risk of deflation or secular stagnation there will soon be a need for radical policies.
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  #38  
Old 08-12-2015, 10:45 PM
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I can't believe this could even be considered as a good thing.

Giving people money while not expecting anything in return is bat-shit crazy.

To fund it taxation, borrowing and printing money would all be under pressure in tougher times.

It's a sttupid concept when encouraging people to earn their own living and then taxing them less so they can own more of their earnings must be the way to go.
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  #39  
Old 08-12-2015, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unsensibleLiam View Post
Other things to consider:

reduction of social externalities arising from long term unemployment. ie. health issues -> reduction of costs for NHS. Reduction in crime -> reduced costs for police.
Tax increase for the most well off
removal of tax credits
The money is going to get spent -> more tax income
Reduction in inequality leading to economic growth -> higher tax receipts/reduction of gov debt as share of GDP

That's just 2 minutes of head scratching. It's definitely not a case of definitely not being affordable. It is better in my opinion to evaluate the positive and negative impacts on society and then see if it can be afforded.
Why do you think it would reduce (long-term) unemployment?

I'm sure the nett cost would be less than 200bn-odd, as those with jobs would soon find themselves taxed back to where they started. But why bother with the pound-swapping in the first place when the vast majority of people wouldn't see a benefit, and those actually on benefits might see them reduced?
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  #40  
Old 08-12-2015, 10:58 PM
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Think I heard an idea like this before back in the day. Everyone equal, now what was it called? Began with a c?
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