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View Poll Results: Which one
Conservatives 31 15.50%
Labour 61 30.50%
Lib Dem 74 37.00%
Green 9 4.50%
Brexit 12 6.00%
Someone else 1 0.50%
Moo = canít be bothered/spoil ballot paper 12 6.00%
Voters: 200. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:42 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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The challenges for the next five to ten years will be different to the past decade. It will be about building more homes and improving public services whilst reducing green house gases. We are at the start of the 4th industrial revolution so you need a party that will invest, invest and invest in new technology.
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  #102  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
The challenges for the next five to ten years will be different to the past decade. It will be about building more homes and improving public services whilst reducing green house gases. We are at the start of the 4th industrial revolution so you need a party that will invest, invest and invest in new technology.
I hope so, sadly I think, well be still arguging over how best to resolve problems we know how to resolve, because fixing them is expensive and we have to be seen to be doing something.

We'll probably be dealing with a referendum on rejoining the EU.
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  #103  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
I appreciate you have said you don't want to talk further on the matter which is a shame but I wanted to point out I agree with you.

However if leaving breaks the democratic referendum voted upon in a legal manner in a democratic country (well two of them) why do certain interested parties have the right to block the majority decision of the Good Friday agreement referendum.

For me, maintaining the result of the Good Friday Agreement to represent that we are indeed a democracy is more important than catering to the desperate wish of some who believe the majority decision is wrong.
I think you can have a referendum to reverse the outcome of a referendum, provided its on the basis of a election driven mandate. Otherwise a referendum should be on the deal or no deal.
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  #104  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:05 PM
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I was going to vote Lib Dem but they have just announced a new policy of just revoke A50. I want to remain but I think that can only happen through a second referendum. We can’t just pretend the first one didn’t happen.
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  #105  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by daverambo2 View Post
I was going to vote Lib Dem but they have just announced a new policy of just revoke A50. I want to remain but I think that can only happen through a second referendum. We canít just pretend the first one didnít happen.
But if they got elected on that mandate (as if) whats the problem?
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  #106  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:14 PM
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why bother whoever gets in will ignore the manifesto and do what they want anyway. Cant trust any of them. Whats the saying how do you know a politician is lying .. their mouth is moving.
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  #107  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I think you can have a referendum to reverse the outcome of a referendum, provided its on the basis of a election driven mandate. Otherwise a referendum should be on the deal or no deal.
Surely if we follow this through then we first need an election driven mandate to reverse the good Friday Agreement and a referendum to do so before we break the Good Friday referendum?

Presumably referendums are really important and the democratic will which follows them cannot be broken without another referendum? Or is this just the brexit referendum and other referendums can 'do one' as the brexit referendum is the only important referendum with loads of supporting rules that no one knew about beforehand but can now be made up despite ample evidence internationally of referendums being reversed without any such rules?
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  #108  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by daverambo2 View Post
I was going to vote Lib Dem but they have just announced a new policy of just revoke A50. I want to remain but I think that can only happen through a second referendum. We canít just pretend the first one didnít happen.
The usual form of governance is general election mandates. The chances of the lib dems gaining a majority are next to nothing. If they did on the back of a mandate to reverse brexit and they did revoke? Our democracy would be returning back to normal.

We are not normally run by referendums with people making up rules about their sanctity all the time.
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  #109  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by daverambo2 View Post
I was going to vote Lib Dem but they have just announced a new policy of just revoke A50. I want to remain but I think that can only happen through a second referendum. We canít just pretend the first one didnít happen.
Have they really announced this? It is as insane as Johnson and his no deal.
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  #110  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:36 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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No, the public voted for Brexit so it should be the public that "unvotes" Brexit but it should be done directly. That should not be conflated with a general election. Person A might prefer to vote Labour because of Brexit but (say) doesn't agree with Labour's possible support for the abolition of grammar and public schools. Person B might want to vote for the Tories to deliver Brexit but cannot do so because of their spending cuts. Person C might want to vote for the Liberals because of Brexit but cannot do so because of "austerity" Swinson's decision to inflict tuition fees on English students. The point being that there are other reasons for voting besides Brexit.
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  #111  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:44 PM
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Have they really announced this? It is as insane as Johnson and his no deal.
Thatís what the political commentators were saying on Twitter this morning.
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  #112  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
No, the public voted for Brexit so it should be the public that "unvotes" Brexit but it should be done directly. That should not be conflated with a general election. Person A might prefer to vote Labour because of Brexit but (say) doesn't agree with Labour's possible support for the abolition of grammar and public schools. Person B might want to vote for the Tories to deliver Brexit but cannot do so because of their spending cuts. Person C might want to vote for the Liberals because of Brexit but cannot do so because of "austerity" Swinson's decision to inflict tuition fees on English students. The point being that there are other reasons for voting besides Brexit.
This. I agree that direct votes arenít helpful. But as you say, having had one to in do it without another direct vote would be ridiculous. It would undermine all future referendums.
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  #113  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:48 PM
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I’m hoping a brick stands for parliament in my constituency so I have something to vote for that actually might be useful.
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  #114  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
The usual form of governance is general election mandates. The chances of the lib dems gaining a majority are next to nothing. If they did on the back of a mandate to reverse brexit and they did revoke? Our democracy would be returning back to normal.

We are not normally run by referendums with people making up rules about their sanctity all the time.
Not to mention a binary referendum on an issue with as many possible variants as Brexit is nuts.

But the 'referendum to deflect a contentious issue' tactic worked for Cameron on AV and Scotland, so he figured it would work on Europe as well...

Can only see a definitive way out of the Brexit issue now with two question referenda.

One - Remain or Leave?

Two - If Leave wins question one, would you rather leave with the WA or with no deal?
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  #115  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by daverambo2 View Post
I was going to vote Lib Dem but they have just announced a new policy of just revoke A50. I want to remain but I think that can only happen through a second referendum. We canít just pretend the first one didnít happen.
Just a bargaining position. They're never going to win an election, but in any coalition negotiation they can now start from Revoke and so insist that a referendum is a compromise, which gives them more leverage over the terms

Also establishes them as unequivocally remain against Labour's ambiguity.
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  #116  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by daverambo2 View Post
This. I agree that direct votes arenít helpful. But as you say, having had one to in do it without another direct vote would be ridiculous. It would undermine all future referendums.
What about past ones getting undermined by this one? Should we just ignore them or should we quickly arrange votes on them too?
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  #117  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:12 PM
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As usual, my vote will not have any influence in a seat where a donkey with a blue rosette would win.
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  #118  
Old 10-09-2019, 05:21 PM
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As usual, my vote will not have any influence in a seat where a donkey with a blue rosette would win.
Unfortunately true of too many seats (if you include donkeys with red rosettes also).
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  #119  
Old 10-09-2019, 05:29 PM
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Have they really announced this? It is as insane as Johnson and his no deal.
But if they are campaigning to remain then logic says they would revoke Article 50 rather than offer another referendum.
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  #120  
Old 11-09-2019, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
What about past ones getting undermined by this one? Should we just ignore them or should we quickly arrange votes on them too?
What are you talking about? Iím saying that a referendum decision should only be reversed by another referendum. Particularly if it hasnít even been implemented yet.

So Scotland should now be given independence if it was voted for in parliament without another referendum?
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