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  #1501  
Old 08-11-2019, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
What has this to do with it.....there was no attempt to cover up Boris comment it was all over the Telegraph.

Because both sides are racists are we only allowed to post links to racism to both sides before doing so.

Why the hell should it matter if the poster is Jewish do you have to be to complain about racism.
I think you have to understand that there is an election going on,to some bringing up antisemitism is an attack on Labour and not looked at in the same way as racism...Could you imagine if this was about colour and someone said are you (---insert colour---) or are you just a massive Torie ?

Most on here have condemned what Boris has said on all sides with no excuses being made, everyone thinks its wrong,end of story....But when it comes to antisemitism ...Excuses,denials, deflections, anger at the poster or quietness.
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  #1502  
Old 08-11-2019, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
Your region is particularly stark - why do you think they are quite so Brexity up there, if you could put it in one killer phrase? It seems like the place where most jobs are likely to be lost to Brexit and where least is being offered.
It's impossible to sum up in one phrase.Lots of people over 50 read the tabloids up here.It's like a disease.I would say consumption of media is the main problem.The fear of immigration is probably second.I say fear because outside of the main towns and cities immigration is minimal.There is quite a lot of ignorant,subtle racism.Not people being racist because they hate people of different nationalities and colour but because they don't understand them as it's not something you come across on a daily basis.The younger generations and Labour voters are still very much pro remain.That's if anyone of my generation is bothered at all,which is rare.
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
Most on here have condemned what Boris has said on all sides with no excuses being made, everyone thinks its wrong,end of story....But when it comes to antisemitism ...Excuses,denials, deflections, anger at the poster or quietness.
No you really haven't.You have constantly deflected to Labour's issues in every post about Boris Johnson's racist comments.And a number of others have too.I don't even think Boris Johnson is racist,I think he made those comments to benefit him politically.
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  #1504  
Old 08-11-2019, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
Anniversary of Kristallnacht tomorrow and this happens in Brighton

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No idea if right or left racist makes no difference right now the division the hatred has to end.
You haven't blamed Corbyn yet.I'm concerned about your well being.
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  #1505  
Old 08-11-2019, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
You haven't blamed Corbyn yet.I'm concerned about your well being.
Thanks for your concern about my health.

Do I think its left related could be. Brighton has a real problem an area one of the Labour councillors suggesting that all Labour members should march on the local synagogue falling a suspension of a member for antisemitism. Home to the meeting that ended up being held in open as no venue could be found where Williamson was the star attraction. Coincidence then the day or two after he is stopped from standing this happens.

However there is no evidence so the original post blames right or left does not matter be it right or left racism has to end. We have seen very clearly where it has led on the right unless racism is fought right or left where how will it end what will it take to end it.
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  #1506  
Old 08-11-2019, 11:56 PM
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I never knew there were two crisp manufacturers called Tayto - one Mick and one Bog.
Both Mick and Bog make a fine crisp. Congratulations to them traversing the world and crisps.
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  #1507  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:02 AM
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Are you Jewish or just a massive tory? Just wondered whee you were when Boris made his Muslim women letterbox comments....
Shit post.
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  #1508  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
Your region is particularly stark - why do you think they are quite so Brexity up there, if you could put it in one killer phrase? It seems like the place where most jobs are likely to be lost to Brexit and where least is being offered.
The benefits that you have seen as a result of increasing globalisation and membership of the EU have not been seen in the North East. It's that simple. Go to a town like Loftus or Seaton Carew or Horden and you'll smell the hopelessness. You say it will only get worse if we leave the EU and yet they would say it cannot get any worse.

Loftus in the borough of Redcar & Cleveland was a lovely North Yorkshire town once upon a time. In the 60s the train station was closed, then the mines were closed, then the steele industry died, then the college closed and the school closed and now it's a town devoid of hope with little in the way of employment prospects and there's literally nothing for kids to do or work toward. It's 45 minutes on a bus to Middlesbrough or 45 minutes on a bus to Whitby which are the closest towns of any note. There may have been some random ERDF money here and there (too often spent on vanity projects - read about the Redcar Beacon!) but it hasn't stimulated the economy or provided jobs and local decision making has meant that Redcar & Cleveland residents have been bitten on the bum by EU funding too many times to mention (in 2014ish Redcar had to return millions of pounds of an EU grant because the criteria of the grant to build the new 'Heart' leisure & office facilities meant they had to lease out most of the office space but because it was in Redcar they couldn't lease any of the office space and therefore the taxpayer in Redcar had to pay out a large portion of the grant back). Loftus was always a Labour heartland and the people of Loftus believed Tony Blair when he sang things will only get better. It didn't in Loftus. The property boom didn't happen. The increase in disposable income didn't happen. The explosion of jobs and increase in the economy didn't happen.

Travel up the coast from Loftus cross the river Tees and you'll end up in Seaton Carew, part of the borough of Hartlepool. Seaton Carew was a lovely seaside tourist spot in the 60s. It has a genuinely beautiful piece of coastline and the buildings are old, majestic and beautiful. But it hasn't had a lick of paint since the 60s and nobody wants to visit or live there since the rise of cheap flights to the Continent. A town that has truly died on it's feet.

Then a little further north up the coast and you come across Horden in County Durham. The place where in 2014 way before the referendum was even a thing the housing association couldn't sell 130 homes to the Council for £1 (note that is £1 total, not £1 each) - To view the link you have to Register or Login. The place where today you can still buy a two-up, two-down Terraced House for £20,000. A village where many of the house prices haven't changed since the 90s (see attached image for a fairly typical example of this).

So the people of Loftus, Seaton Carew and Horden (and countless other estates and villages in the North East) have had no benefit from membership of the EU. It never made them richer, or happier and never provided jobs or hope. Thatcher may have closed down the mines but Blair didn't help the North East either and neither did membership of the EU. It's bizarre to think that as many jobs were lost during the Blair / EU 'boom years' than during Thatcher's miners purge.

And the immigration argument is lazy we don't have immigration and we never really did. The people looking for work know there is none round here. Despite a population of over 100,000 there is only approx 100 Non-UK National Insurance Number Registrations each year, fewer than 100 births to Non-UK parents each year and about 600 non-UK nationals registered to vote.

And I dispute that the majority of young people or the majority of Labour voters in the North East want to remain. Perhaps that's true in the cities and large population centres but places like Loftus, Seaton Carew and Horden voted 70%/80% to leave despite being Labour heartlands.
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  #1509  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
I think you have to understand that there is an election going on,to some bringing up antisemitism is an attack on Labour and not looked at in the same way as racism...Could you imagine if this was about colour and someone said are you (---insert colour---) or are you just a massive Torie ?

Most on here have condemned what Boris has said on all sides with no excuses being made, everyone thinks its wrong,end of story....But when it comes to antisemitism ...Excuses,denials, deflections, anger at the poster or quietness.
Think the problem lies with the Tories losing practically zero votes for their obvious racism while labour (as a party that is meant to stand against it) are getting battered by it daily.

Thing is it’s wrong on either side but sadly where we are with political racism or someone trying to be an MP who says women should keep their knickers on when discussing rape on the Tory side is ignored by their voters. However the other side, whose vote don’t ignore that kind of shit have excuses, denials, deflections and anger. Because one side is known for representing morality and non racism and the other sides voters Seemingly don’t give a shit about racism, sexism, anti lgbt or blaming women for rape as they should have held those knickers tighter.

One side is (rightly) under intense scutiny. The other side could **** a dog live on bbc and their voters wouldn’t care.

I sit shaking my head in the middle. A bit lost as to what has happened.

Last edited by Hpalace; 09-11-2019 at 12:29 AM.
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  #1510  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:31 AM
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Shit post.
Yes. It was out of order.
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  #1511  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Think the problem lies with the Tories losing practically zero votes for their obvious racism while labour (as a party that is meant to stand against it) are getting battered by it daily.

Thing is itís wrong on either side but sadly where we are with political racism or someone trying to be an MP who says women should keep their knickers on when discussing rape on the Tory side is ignored by their voters. However the other side, whose vote donít ignore that kind of shit have excuses, denials, deflections and anger. Because one side is known for representing morality and non racism and the other sides voters Seemingly donít give a shit about racism, sexism, anti lgbt or blaming women for rape as they should have held those knickers tighter.

One side is (rightly) under intense scutiny. The other side could **** a dog live on bbc and their voters wouldnít care.

I sit shaking my head in the middle. A bit lost as to what has happened.
Itís like when Trump said he would shoot someone and his base wouldnít care.

But itís more than that. The Trump base, and Tory base, actually like their politicians coming out with bigotry, as they agree with it. They want a society with more bigotry and prejudice.

Iíve given a long list of quotes from BJ, and asked Gonzo why he still supports him. And he canít give an answer.

I donít believe labour would be any threat to Jewish communities in power. Where the tories are and will be a threat to minority groups.

That doesnít mean that issues in Labour of bigotry are in any way ok or donít need to be dealt with, but itís just not on anything like the scale or indeed threat from the tories.
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  #1512  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:49 AM
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Just imagine if Corbyn had actually personally said the things Boris has.
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  #1513  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Itís like when Trump said he would shoot someone and his base wouldnít care.

But itís more than that. The Trump base, and Tory base, actually like their politicians coming out with bigotry, as they agree with it. They want a society with more bigotry and prejudice.

Iíve given a long list of quotes from BJ, and asked Gonzo why he still supports him. And he canít give an answer.

I donít believe labour would be any threat to Jewish communities in power. Where the tories are and will be a threat to minority groups.

That doesnít mean that issues in Labour of bigotry are in any way ok or donít need to be dealt with, but itís just not on anything like the scale or indeed threat from the tories.
There is no chance I will vote corbyn again in this election but generally I agree with the above. I will ignore the gonzo comment as he is entitled to his view and frankly I read a subtext to his posts that reveals he agrees with the rest of us; that things arenít going swimmingly. I think (I hope) he may even recognise something is fundamentally wrong.

But yeah itís like like trump at the mo. The voters that will prop this government up have no concern for racism, lgbt, the union, or imop general morality regarding to rape victims. They couldnít give a ****.

Labour however who stand for that shit normally, arenít . At least not properly.

Bad times.
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  #1514  
Old 09-11-2019, 01:01 AM
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Just imagine if Corbyn had actually personally said the things Boris has.
That’s my point. His voters would give a shit. The others, who are meant to be conservatives have lost and forgotten their puritanical beginnings. Now a womaniser who struggles to remember how many kids he has or how many women have born them while married is their adorned.

It’s just ******* weird what’s going on.
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  #1515  
Old 09-11-2019, 01:17 AM
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There is no chance I will vote corbyn again in this election but generally I agree with the above. I will ignore the gonzo comment as he is entitled to his view and frankly I read a subtext to his posts that reveals he agrees with the rest of us; that things arenít going swimmingly. I think (I hope) he may even recognise something is fundamentally wrong.

But yeah itís like like trump at the mo. The voters that will prop this government up have no concern for racism, lgbt, the union, or imop general morality regarding to rape victims. They couldnít give a ****.

Labour however who stand for that shit normally, arenít . At least not properly.

Bad times.
Labour would make many changes, and many far more progressive than new labour.

Shutting down detention centres, giving all residents a vote, scrapping the anti union laws, building huge amounts of council homes. The list could go on and on.
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  #1516  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
I don’t believe labour would be any threat to Jewish communities in power. Where the tories are and will be a threat to minority groups.

That doesn’t mean that issues in Labour of bigotry are in any way ok or don’t need to be dealt with, but it’s just not on anything like the scale or indeed threat from the tories.
That's your opinion but a lot of Jews disagree with you including Jewish MP's who are closer to all of this than you are.

The scale at the momemt is that the only party that is being investigated is Labour for now as I read the Tories could also be investigated.

It should not be a battle of who is worse it should be a battle of making it unacceptable.



The battle isn’t Labour anti-semitism vs Tory Islamophobia—it’s everyone against hatred

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The main parties are simultaneously using anti-semitism and Islamaphobia as a proverbial stick to beat each other with and as a shield in defence of their own failings. There is a malodorous smell of hypocrisy from both sides.

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Old 09-11-2019, 02:56 AM
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The benefits ...heartlands.
Best post you have made for a long time.
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:04 AM
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Best post you have made for a long time.
That said, its a good explanation of why the people voted for Brexit, but it does not explain how Brexit will make anything better. In all likely hood it will get worse. At least the people will get what they voted for, which I guess is democracy after a fashion.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
It’s like when Trump said he would shoot someone and his base wouldn’t care.

But it’s more than that. The Trump base, and Tory base, actually like their politicians coming out with bigotry, as they agree with it. They want a society with more bigotry and prejudice.

I’ve given a long list of quotes from BJ, and asked Gonzo why he still supports him. And he can’t give an answer.

I don’t believe labour would be any threat to Jewish communities in power. Where the tories are and will be a threat to minority groups.

That doesn’t mean that issues in Labour of bigotry are in any way ok or don’t need to be dealt with, but it’s just not on anything like the scale or indeed threat from the tories.
This is how I see it.

Also would add that IMO it’s the Tories scaremongering, by using anti semitism as a tactic for their self serving ends to demonise their opponents, which is actually causing the Jewish community more worry, fear and anxiety than anything else.

It’s such a disgusting tactic - lowest of the low. But hardly surprising, coming from a party that has unleashed the worst crisis in our country since the war, through a blatant attempt of self preservation. They should all be serving time not campaigning for five more years of power.
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  #1520  
Old 09-11-2019, 06:23 AM
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From what I have read most of what has been said about this is Labour MP's and Labour MP's that have quit the party because of it ?

Who is the villain here people calling out Racism or Antisemitism or those that participated in it ?

It used to be those that were racist or antisemitic.

The former home secretary David Blunkett has said the “antisemitism” and “thuggery” within Labour makes him despair, compounding a difficult few days for the party....

And on Friday, Dame Margaret Hodge – one of the most prominent Jewish figures in Labour – declined to endorse the opposition leader as prime minister.

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