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  #21  
Old 15-05-2005, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PoolKing
They are hardly going to turn around publicly and say that ID makes some poor decisions
Several of them - including experienced pros like Hughes who tell it like it is - have heaped praise on him. AJ didnt even sign his contract extension until Dowie's was sorted out.

There were plenty of team selections, and in particular substitutions (including today's) which may be hard to understand. But the basic fact is that we had the cheapest squad in the Prem, with virtually no Prem experience, and we failed to hang on by one point after having dragged ourselves up from near-relegation in half a season the year before. That is outstanding on anyone's scale.

Any `good luck' last year has been more than outweighed by `bad luck' this year. The best measurement of success is to ignore that and just look at where we were when he took over, where we are now, and how little (comparatively) we have spent in between. End of.
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  #22  
Old 15-05-2005, 10:32 PM
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Everyone said we went up too soon, we were told we were the worst team in Premier league history, but we were there fighting right up until the final whistle of the last game of the season. We came up short, but not by very much! Yeah they're Palace heroes!
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  #23  
Old 15-05-2005, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rambo
But the basic fact is that we had the cheapest squad in the Prem, with virtually no Prem experience, and we failed to hang on by one point after having dragged ourselves up from near-relegation in half a season the year before. That is outstanding on anyone's scale.

Any `good luck' last year has been more than outweighed by `bad luck' this year. The best measurement of success is to ignore that and just look at where we were when he took over, where we are now, and how little (comparatively) we have spent in between. End of.
Players with Champions' League experience were overlooked on key occasions (Kolkka and Ventola). As for the good/bad luck thing, to a certain extent, WBA made their own luck. They went 3 upfront (with proper strikers no less) looking for the win at one point today. We shoved a centre half upfront instead of Ventola at 2-2. Didn't work against Boro when Hall was pushed up and surprise, surprise, it didn't work today. But hey, that's the Premiership. Experienced teams won't get undone by makeshift strikers.
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  #24  
Old 15-05-2005, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sussex Eagle
Bang bang bang. Pobody's nerfect, including those two, but you can feck off with that kind of talk. I'm wagging my finger as I type.
me too, i hope its just because he is upset !!! !!!

Dowie, Harbin, Kit, Jordan + all the lads are all heroes nothing can be taken from these guys

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  #25  
Old 15-05-2005, 11:50 PM
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You make some fair points there Nelson. But I'll ask you a question.

Do you think this club is in a better position now than it was when Dowie took over?

I do. We may be back in the same division, but I believe we are stronger for the last season, and for Dowie's contribution.
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  #26  
Old 16-05-2005, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by furzy85
As for Harbin, he's not a football man, he came from a rugby league background, and yes he is a fitness coach. Palace were one of the fittest teams in the league, we lacked concentration not the ability to tirelessly run for 90 minutes (something we did in every game)
Isn't rugby league an 80 minute game ?
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  #27  
Old 16-05-2005, 12:34 AM
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Nelson, sorry mate but thats a tad harsh. First of all Palace had 0 Premiership experience going into this season. Dowie admitted he was initially daunted by the challenge in front of him. Yes he has made mistakes the real question has he learnt from only time will tell.

Sorry mate but if we stayed up, you would of posted the exact opposite of what you wrote. It seems a tad harsh as it was so marginal success and failure today. Personally I want all of this positive thinking etc to continue, what I want developed is Dowie's tactical awareness. Knowing Dowie during the summer he'll sit down and watch every Premier league match we played and take in where we went wrong and where we went right.

Nelson, Dowie is tactically naive but it's not his fault. I truly believe he will get better and better. I mean look at Ferguson, took him years to get Man Utd successful and then it clicked (against us =( ). Think criticism is too harsh and raw at this point in time. At Christmas we will see how Dowie has faired and see then to 'judge' him.
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  #28  
Old 16-05-2005, 04:50 AM
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More of the same please Mr Dowie.

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  #29  
Old 16-05-2005, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Celestial Empire
Isn't rugby league an 80 minute game ?
Yes, but to be fair, they waste a lot less of the playing time rolling around the pitch in "agony" before getting up and running around again.
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  #30  
Old 16-05-2005, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PoolKing
All this talk of 'Bouncebackability'! We were mainly the victims of this Dowie Copyrighted term. For a team that prides itself on battling qualities we gave up numerous points this season. Everton - we lost 3 points after being in front, Norwich - 2 points lost, Southampton - 2 points lost, Liverpool - 1 point lost are the obvious examples that spring to mind.

I completely agree although you need to include the two Charlton matches in that list. When the going gets tough too many times we were found lacking.

With WBA surviving with the lowest ever points tally proves that the Premier League was easier for the bottom teams than ever before and we still couldn't survive.
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  #31  
Old 16-05-2005, 07:10 AM
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A laughable thread.
We were well short of the quality needed to stay up but we were only 8 minutes from staying up. Palace under Dowie have fought harder than any Palace team Ive seen. The man inspires me as does JH. They are both critical to the future of this club. Were all disapointed about yesterday but the negativety of this post appalls me.
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  #32  
Old 16-05-2005, 07:35 AM
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Nelson - in my head I agree with all that you've written.

In my heart, I think you're totally wrong.

And football, especially Palace, is all about heart, not head. That's how bouncebackability works. Bouncebackability defies the brain - it defies the laws of physics. Bouncebackability says that when a lead balloon drops into swamp it sinks, but we’ve seen how that lead balloon hits the swamp and comes back up. I can't explain it but I've seen it with my own eyes and so I have to believe it.

For that reason I have to condemn you to the outer darkness as a heretic.
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  #33  
Old 16-05-2005, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pub Idol
A laughable thread.
We were well short of the quality needed to stay up but we were only 8 minutes from staying up. Palace under Dowie have fought harder than any Palace team Ive seen. The man inspires me as does JH. They are both critical to the future of this club. Were all disapointed about yesterday but the negativety of this post appalls me.
This post typifies my sentiments. Whilst Im absolutely gutted by yesterday, I now look forward to Soares and Leigertwood own championship matches in central midfield, seeing them improve to an extent where they are more prepared for the premiership the season after next. What is annoying to me isnt ID's mistakes (he was always going to make some), its more along the lines the the team will cake walk the championship. Apart from Norwich, who can honestly say that any other team can finish above us, assuming we keep the team together??
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  #34  
Old 16-05-2005, 08:50 AM
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I can understand Nelson's sentiments, but I disagree. Every manager has to pay their dues, and it has to be remembered that Dowie is still a very inexperienced manager. Everyone will make mistakes, but just look at what he did with a threadbare squad, almost no money and a mainly Championship level squad. And remember that if Palace had stayed up (which was pretty darn close), this thread might never have been opened.

Brought Palace as close to staying up as possible. I know its of little consolation as relegation did happen, but nonetheless quite an achievement. This remins me of the pattern along which WBA and Charlton have gone.

WBA were in the Prem 2002/03, kept building and didn't lose many players after relegation, got back up in a hurry, had more money to invest (1st Prem year money + parachute money + 2nd year Prem money) and stayed up. Very much like Charlton. Palace need to keep it smart, retain most of their core, not go overboard with the spending and they can follow a similar pattern.

Dowie inherited a decent div 1 side and performed a miracle in promotion, but even with 14 (?) new signings there was little in the way of top quality acquired. Mainly rotation players (Hudson, Lakis, Andrews, Boyce, Speroni), a few quality players (Sorondo, Hall) and very few guy with true ability to lead to or change games (Kolkka maybe, Gabor, Ventola (but the injuries...)).

A season in the Championship for the likes of Leigertwood, Torghelle, Hudson, even Soares, it should allow them a real chance to develop and shine. Boyce will improve and hopefully we can get a full season out of Butterfield as well. Just look at our defense, even without Sorondo and possibly Hall, is that not a very high quality Championship defense?

Then look at our strikers, even without AJ. The Championship is the type of setting where guys like Torghelle (big, strong, decent finish, mean streak) hit it big. It's a legue made for all the Torghelle's and Shipperley's out there. Freedman's still got the (championship) touch and even Andrews could make an impact there.

And don't forget that Speroni has a point to prove if Gabor leaves. An if Pyjama Man stays, well...

Palace's only clear weakness is the midfield, where we will no doubt see many departures and are in need of much reinforcement. But there will be quality available, bosman guys and young steals, don't worry.

Back to Dowie. He has a major point to prove not only tactically but also mentally. Can he find ways to motivate the team very quickly after this disappointment? I believe Dowie will be stonger next year because of his endless ambition and thirst for knowledge.

He has reacted slowly sometimes to weak spells but who doesn't? Tell me a manager this side of Mourinho who doesn't want to tinker constantly but rather be patient, who doesn't want to change things too suddenly. He succesfully went from 4-4-2 to 4-5-1 and back again when we needed it and seldomly made costly selection mistakes. And he corrected another early flaw of his, to make (good and timely) substitutions, as the season progressed. The logic behind the Powell sub was odd, but understandable.

I believe ID has a stellar future as a manager, because at least to me he has shown the ability to motivate, to improve himself (on the following), change tactics when necessary, make good subs and help his players take it notch up. He's still learning and makes mitakes, but I don't believe those mistakes cost us the season.

Last edited by JJO; 16-05-2005 at 08:53 AM.
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  #35  
Old 16-05-2005, 09:19 AM
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I agree wholeheartedly with the thread and will not be truly happy until Jordan admits the error that was letting Trevor Francis slip from his grasp.

Its a tactician such as Francis that we desperately needed this season. I remember the cold dark nights at home to Crewe and Sheffield United when the team was so well organised and knew exactly how to avoid defeat at all costs.

Dowie and Harbin OUT !!!



ps This was the closest smilie I could get to what I want to say.... but you know what I mean, yes?
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  #36  
Old 16-05-2005, 09:29 AM
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Cut the winging and moaning.

No point on crying over spilt milk !!!!!!!!

Dowie has performed miracles as well as making mistakes, if he learns from them and he;s with us next year, it could turn out to be a great 2005/06

Perhaps what he needs is a master tactician at no.2, NOT a motivator
Whilst Kit Symons appears to have done little wrong, would it not help ID to have an older wiser head to school him and help us.
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Old 16-05-2005, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clean


Its a tactician such as Francis that we desperately needed this season. I remember the cold dark nights at home to Crewe and Sheffield United when the team was so well organised and knew exactly how to avoid defeat at all costs.

Dowie and Harbin OUT !!!

:

Mr Clean you cannot be serious about Francis.
Good tactician, good eye for talent, but the man management skills of Atilla the Hun
The two together could be a good team but probably out of our pay scale and would they work well together

Last edited by SW11 Andy; 16-05-2005 at 09:55 AM.
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  #38  
Old 16-05-2005, 09:42 AM
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Find me a manager and backroom team that could have done better than Iain Dowie in the last 12 months with the same set of players...

...for the reason why we don't have a squad of "better" players you have to look elsewhere!
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Old 16-05-2005, 09:48 AM
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jesus I can't believe this talk.

Last year, after the position he picked us up in if Dowie had made us safe mid table we'd have been happy, and this season if we'd have been fighting for a play off spot we'd have said it was reasonable progress. And when we went up most of us were thinking we'd be down again by Xmas, let alone taking it to the last knockings of the season.

The man took virtually the same side as was in the bottom three in Div 1 and losing to Wigan 5-0 18 months ago to within 8 minutes of survival in the Premier League.

Yes he made a few cock ups or errors of judgement along the way - but you tell me someone who doesn't in life ?

He is the best manager we've had in years, certainly as a motivator if not a tactician, he gave it a bloody good go but in the end we weren't quite good enough.

Its all part of the trials and tribulations of being a Palace fan - much more interesting than supporting the Clowns, Spurs or Villa - never a real chance of going down but never a real chance of winning anything either - just season after season of finishing a mediocre 10th.
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Old 16-05-2005, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SW11 Andy
Mr Clean you cannot be serious about Francis.
Good tactician, good eye for talent, but the man manaagement skills of Atilla the Hun
The two together could be a good team but probably out of our pay scale and would they work well together
I think he was joking!
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