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  #1  
Old 31-03-2021, 11:17 PM
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Derek Chauvin trial

They say Justice has to be done, and that Justice has to be seen to be done. However, this trial scares me. I worry that whatever the result it will prove both divisive and provoke a backlash from one side or the other.

Watching the footage it is hard not to feel anything other than deep anger with Chauvin, but will he get a fair trial?
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Old 31-03-2021, 11:31 PM
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He'll get a fair trial but will it be a fair sentence? I hope justice is done
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Old 31-03-2021, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
will he get a fair trial?
Let's hope so. All the publicity is on the prosecution side, but I've heard reasonable arguments from both sides in the court.

Ultimately, no matter what the bias has been in the past, I think everyone deserves a fair trial, and most people want everyone in court to have a fair trial.
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Old 01-04-2021, 01:10 AM
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Most interesting news about it I've learnt recently was Chauvin offered to plead guilty to 3rd degree murder but the then AG Barr rejected it.

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Old 01-04-2021, 04:59 AM
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I just hope he gets what he deserves and does not escape justice on some foolish technicality
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Old 01-04-2021, 05:15 AM
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I just hope he gets what he deserves and does not escape justice on some foolish technicality
such as the reported technicality that George Floyd died from the drugs in his system rather than the affect of being knelt on.

I hope the court can determine the actual cause of death and lay blame with Chauvin if guilty. Unfortunately whatever the facts turn out to be the "losing side" wont accept the court's decision.
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Old 01-04-2021, 05:31 AM
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I just hope he gets what he deserves and does not escape justice on some foolish technicality
Having spent 10 years working in the legal system and going to court every day of those 10 years it annoys me when people harp on about “foolish technicality’s”.

All “technicality’s” are there for a reason to help serve the best possible justice there are rarely foolish ones only foolish people that believe the press and have not been presented to the full facts and don’t have an in-depth understanding or the law.
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Old 01-04-2021, 05:54 AM
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I've heard reasonable arguments from both sides in the court.
OK please tell us which "both sides" defence arguments you find reasonable?

- The really convincing one that the knee on his neck had nothing to do with his death, as he was in such bad health and addled with drugs he was going to expire in that spot at that time anyway?

- The "I was just following orders because I was trained to kneel on people's necks for 9 minutes even after they pass out and die" argument?

- The "Actually I was distracted by the people watching trying to stop me doing my job so it's not my fault" line?

- The one about Floyd being a nasty piece of work who deserved to die anyway?
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Old 01-04-2021, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
Having spent 10 years working in the legal system and going to court every day of those 10 years it annoys me when people harp on about “foolish technicality’s”.

All “technicality’s” are there for a reason to help serve the best possible justice there are rarely foolish ones only foolish people that believe the press and have not been presented to the full facts and don’t have an in-depth understanding or the law.
Well said, that man.
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Old 01-04-2021, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
Having spent 10 years working in the legal system and going to court every day of those 10 years it annoys me when people harp on about “foolish technicality’s”.

All “technicality’s” are there for a reason to help serve the best possible justice there are rarely foolish ones only foolish people that believe the press and have not been presented to the full facts and don’t have an in-depth understanding or the law.
But Im sure they've watched several episodes of L.A. Law and Boston Legal so are well versed in the law.
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Old 01-04-2021, 09:04 AM
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But Im sure they've watched several episodes of L.A. Law and Boston Legal so are well versed in the law.
Objection
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Old 01-04-2021, 09:09 AM
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Old 01-04-2021, 09:13 AM
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I just hope he gets what he deserves and does not escape justice on some foolish technicality
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Old 01-04-2021, 10:03 AM
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The officer who strangled Eric Garner wasn’t even charged so to me it seems in this case where the defence will be able sow enough doubt over cause of death it’s likely Chauvin walks free.
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Old 01-04-2021, 10:37 AM
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But Im sure they've watched several episodes of L.A. Law and Boston Legal so are well versed in the law.
Boston Legal should be compulsory viewing. Atticus Finch has nothing on Denny Crane.
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Old 01-04-2021, 10:52 AM
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Boston Legal should be compulsory viewing. Atticus Finch has nothing on Denny Crane.
Back in the day we used to play something called the Friday afternoon name game where you had to find names of people on the company email address book for whatever the subject was that week. Animals, porn stars (Honey Le Brock and Frank Python won that week), whatever. Boston Law firm names was one week, and we found two partners in London (Martin Kitcatt and Ehrhardt “Eggie” Koch) who won because “Kitcatt and Koch, Attorneys at Law”, is a TV show that needs to be made.
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:00 AM
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Back in the day we used to play something called the Friday afternoon name game where you had to find names of people on the company email address book for whatever the subject was that week. Animals, porn stars (Honey Le Brock and Frank Python won that week), whatever. Boston Law firm names was one week, and we found two partners in London (Martin Kitcatt and Ehrhardt “Eggie” Koch) who won because “Kitcatt and Koch, Attorneys at Law”, is a TV show that needs to be made.
Not an animal or a porn star - but reminds me of an American guy who used to work in my company - really sounded like he should be CEO or at least some high ranking executive, but in reality was a relatively lowly analyst type - but called Raymond Le Grand Blakeney III.

Anyway back on thread...not sure what offence he'll be found guilty of - but surely there's no denying that Chauvin's actions significantly contributed to Floyd's death and that he could have very easily chosen a different course of action. So was it pre-meditated murder, probably not - but was it accidental or unavoidable, probably not either.
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:35 AM
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
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OK please tell us which "both sides" defence arguments you find reasonable?

- The really convincing one that the knee on his neck had nothing to do with his death, as he was in such bad health and addled with drugs he was going to expire in that spot at that time anyway?

- The "I was just following orders because I was trained to kneel on people's necks for 9 minutes even after they pass out and die" argument?

- The "Actually I was distracted by the people watching trying to stop me doing my job so it's not my fault" line?

- The one about Floyd being a nasty piece of work who deserved to die anyway?
Legally speaking the first three are 'reasonable arguments' in a criminal trial. The key to any defence is in a criminal trial, is to best represent the interests of the defendant, and notably to achieve 'reasonable doubt'.

The first disproves or undermines the notion of murder as a direct consequence of the individuals actions must contribute significantly to a homicide for it to be murder. I'd imagine that most defendents on a murder trial would swap out a murder charge to an assault charge (and this is effectively what this argument is saying - That regardless of what restraining action the police officer took, any significant restraint would have resulted in the same or similar outcome.

The second, presents a case that murder was not committed (though could be an admission of manslaughter or corporate manslaughter), as the intention of the individuals act were 'not of a malicious intent liable to knowingly cause harm or death' - it diminishes their responsibility, placing it on the police department.

The third I think is weak, but again its about establishing a grounds by which the intent to cause serious harm or death is mitigated from willful intent.

The fourth is no defence at all though (but is used to prejudice the jury towards the victim, and I think is technically illegal but easily covered).

From the perspective of the Defence, the facts of what happened that day are common place knowledge. The defendants actions are well documented - the only hope for a fair trial is to establish reasonable doubt around the grounds of validating a homicide as a murder charge.

The concept of a fair trial isn't that the outcome is necessarily the truth. The bloke is 'guilty as f**k'. What the defence is really trying to do is show that he's not guilty of the crime of murder (and there is a risk here from the prosecution, that they probably can't retry him again on the same evidence).
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:47 AM
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Back in the day we used to play something called the Friday afternoon name game where you had to find names of people on the company email address book for whatever the subject was that week. Animals, porn stars (Honey Le Brock and Frank Python won that week), whatever. Boston Law firm names was one week, and we found two partners in London (Martin Kitcatt and Ehrhardt “Eggie” Koch) who won because “Kitcatt and Koch, Attorneys at Law”, is a TV show that needs to be made.
My first job in IT, one of the senior managers was Richard Long, who absolutely owned this, by insisting on being called Dick even on his email and Door stencil, which read Long, Dick. I always respected that, not hiding, just owning it and saying to the world, yeah I know, right.
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