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Old 05-06-2021, 05:48 PM
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History of the Brighton v Palace rivalry, LIVE talk Wednesday July 14th

Evening all,

At 7pm on Wednesday July 14th, History Indoors will be hosting a talk about the history of the rivalry between Palace and Brighton via Zoom. As we’re a history organisation, the talk will take a specifically historical angle, using newspaper clippings and memorabilia to explore the development of the rivalry. The talk is aimed at people of all ages, with younger fans of the two clubs being able to learn about the rivalry’s origins, while older fans can take a trip down memory lane. The talk will be followed by a Q&A session, where you can ask questions and share your own personal recollections of past Palace/Brighton encounters.

This talk may be the perfect antidote to overcome the post-Euros blues and build anticipation for the forthcoming season!

You can sign up for free below via Eventbrite:
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Details of the talk can also be found here:
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Old 05-06-2021, 06:51 PM
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A good place to start your literature review
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Old 06-06-2021, 02:38 PM
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A good place to start your literature review
We can't promise our talk will be as creative or humorous as that, but hopefully just as informative!
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Old 06-06-2021, 03:46 PM
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The history of the 'rivalry' can be summed up in a sentence; Palace have had it over Bright*n for nearly fifty years while they have become such an irrelevant, forgotten club that their hatred of us is the only thing which defines them.
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Old 07-06-2021, 07:17 AM
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I think it's a much more significant to them, than us though in recent years it's become more of a thing since promotion. I think simply because for a lot of fans, Millwall and Charlton has a) more recent history in terms of games b) a shared geography with their fans.

Also the period of its birth, in the seventies was before A lot of fans time as well.

A lot of Palace fans live in and around Millwall and Charlton fans, as well as knowing them. Still, there's something very Palace about a rival that's further away than a locality.

For me, a lot of it stems from how seriously they take it, and loving how when it's necessary or important, it always seems to be us on top. The only time they finish above us in 26 years, is the season we beat them in the playoff and then win promotion.

If they didn't care, id probably be full of respect for what they've achieved in recent years.
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Old 07-06-2021, 07:24 AM
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For us Palace fans living in Sussex its pretty real. Although I agree they take it more seriously - for example the sight of an grannie venting her absolute hatred for us on local tv after that play off game will live long in the memory!
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Old 07-06-2021, 07:26 AM
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For us Palace fans living in Sussex its pretty real. Although I agree they take it more seriously - for example the sight of an grannie venting her absolute hatred for us on local tv after that play off game will live long in the memory!
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Old 07-06-2021, 11:50 AM
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Talking to many fans from the time, it’s pretty much agreed that the friendly fixture in the Summer of 1973, when Palace visited Brighton was the original flashpoint.

Prior to that, there hadn’t been a fixture of any note since January 1963. That’s significant because Brighton actually got relegated to Division Four by the end of the 62/63 season.

The two clubs didn’t meet again (apart from the 1973 friendly) until 1974 in Division Three. Over the following three seasons, Charlton, who were the only other London team in Div Three in 74/75 got promoted, Millwall, relegated in 1975 from Div Two became Palace’s only London derby in the 1975/76 season, Millwall got promoted at the end of that season.

Here is a map of the teams that made up Division Three for the 1976/77 season:



As you can see, Palace’s nearest match would have been Gillingham, which has hardly ever been high up on either club’s list of rivalries - I think Gillingham put Millwall way up over any dislike for us and as I witnessed their Play Off Final with Swindon in 1986 at Selhurst Park - I know how deeply the Gills hate Swindon, which makes our 44 mile rivalry with Brighton look even more sensible!

The fact is, Palace and Brighton were both fighting for promotion in 1976, both with new managers in Venables and Mullery, both with the highest attendances of any of the other Third Division clubs and as fate would have it, not just two important League fixtures, but three games to settle a First Round FA Cup tie where the aggregate attendance was circa 75,000 and was settled in very controversial circumstances, so that whatever rivalry had preceded it from 1973, by 1976 it was a very much the key fixture for both sets of fans.

This spilled on into the following seasons and although matches became rarer after the late 1980s - another factor has come in to play, huge amounts of Palace support have sprung up in Sussex as former residents that lived much closer to SE25 have gradually moved out and in fact you have significant pockets of support for both clubs in many areas far closer to Brighton than they are to Selhurst Park - which is not always understood by people unfamiliar with the rivalry.

Millwall is the logical rival, but the key here is that there have never been the same amount of key games between the clubs as Brighton and also the rather obvious fact that not many clubs used to enjoy a row with Millwall, as I found out fairly rapidly on my visits to the old Den during that 1975/76 season. Thankfully the bruising has subsided.

Charlton and Palace have had more key games, especially over the past 35 years, but before that, a Palace v Charlton fixture was in fact a very rare thing, so there simply isn’t the same depth of history as Palace v Brighton or Palace v Millwall.

Again, another factor is exactly where you are located. Palace’s support is fairly well spread out and the fans living closest or in the Boroughs of Lewisham and Greenwich are going to have a different outlook as to who their main Palace rival is.
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Old 07-06-2021, 11:33 PM
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Talking to many fans from the time, it’s pretty much agreed that the friendly fixture in the Summer of 1973, when Palace visited Brighton was the original flashpoint.
Definitely 1973. I guess some journalist came up, incorrectly, with the Mullery/Venables theory and it has been taken as gospel by many, including our club site, since. A cowardly bunch of Brighton fans running into their local, throwing pint glasses at the Palace fans who had taken it over and then running away doesn't sound anywhere near as interesting!
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Old 08-06-2021, 01:17 AM
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Old 08-06-2021, 01:50 AM
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Definitely 1973. I guess some journalist came up, incorrectly, with the Mullery/Venables theory and it has been taken as gospel by many, including our club site, since. A cowardly bunch of Brighton fans running into their local, throwing pint glasses at the Palace fans who had taken it over and then running away doesn't sound anywhere near as interesting!
I was around a lot back then. I vaguely remember something about that friendly in 1973... Just feedback from the few that went. I didn't go neither did the friends I went to most away games with. However, the first game at Brighton in the third division in 1974.... well over 10,000 Palace fans attended... possibly over 15,000. For me that's when it started. Not sure why there was such a mass following that day. I think it was a culmination of the publicity that Malcolm Allison was giving us and the fact that everyone figured/knew/believed we were much better than any other third division team...better even than most second division teams at the time.... that was the sincere core belief then, true or not. Hence the mass interest. Nothing in my book that had Brighton as anything special, just the coincidence that they were close by and copped Palace in true go get them mode on that first Third division day. Combine that with the fact that no other team had ever taken over their ground or in fact their town in that manner before... Hence the rivalry. That First game, in the Third was a very special day, the fact that it happened at Brighton to me was from a historical point of view serendipitous.


I think it's also worth mentioning that the previous game, or the last game in the 2nd division before that was also well attended. It was a midweek game away at Cardiff and I'd say 3K+ Palace fans (4 train loads from Paddington plus many coaches) traveled midweek to Wales for a Relegation game!!... Palace were becoming very well supported by then and relegation wasn't really a hurdle to that support. It's just that that first game in the third was a true opportunity to galvanise that feeling and support that was growing along with the publicity that Malcolm Allison brought with him.
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Old 08-06-2021, 02:18 AM
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Definitely 1973. I guess some journalist came up, incorrectly, with the Mullery/Venables theory and it has been taken as gospel by many, including our club site, since. A cowardly bunch of Brighton fans running into their local, throwing pint glasses at the Palace fans who had taken it over and then running away doesn't sound anywhere near as interesting!

Thing is, with that glass throwing in a pub door full of other supporters was par for the course back then. Brighton wouldn't have been the only one to do that to Palace fans and some Palace fans more than likely would have done the same to plenty of other supporters back then. So I dont think that incident makes the rivalry stand out more or less than any other team where there was a bit of as they used to colloquially say "Bovver" In fact I think that happened to us at Peterborough and Swindon before then.


Should have seen the bricks and bottles both ways espically on the way to the ground thrown at Cardiff for instance... plus plenty of other places before that.
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Old 08-06-2021, 09:03 AM
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For us Palace fans living in Sussex its pretty real. Although I agree they take it more seriously - for example the sight of an grannie venting her absolute hatred for us on local tv after that play off game will live long in the memory!
I agree. Grew up in mid-Sussex in the mid- to late 70’s and used to get bounced round the school when we played, which was very often in those days. Felt pretty real at the time.
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:27 PM
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I was around a lot back then. I vaguely remember something about that friendly in 1973... Just feedback from the few that went. I didn't go neither did the friends I went to most away games with. However, the first game at Brighton in the third division in 1974.... well over 10,000 Palace fans attended... possibly over 15,000. For me that's when it started. Not sure why there was such a mass following that day. I think it was a culmination of the publicity that Malcolm Allison was giving us and the fact that everyone figured/knew/believed we were much better than any other third division team...better even than most second division teams at the time.... that was the sincere core belief then, true or not. Hence the mass interest. Nothing in my book that had Brighton as anything special, just the coincidence that they were close by and copped Palace in true go get them mode on that first Third division day. Combine that with the fact that no other team had ever taken over their ground or in fact their town in that manner before... Hence the rivalry. That First game, in the Third was a very special day, the fact that it happened at Brighton to me was from a historical point of view serendipitous.


I think it's also worth mentioning that the previous game, or the last game in the 2nd division before that was also well attended. It was a midweek game away at Cardiff and I'd say 3K+ Palace fans (4 train loads from Paddington plus many coaches) traveled midweek to Wales for a Relegation game!!... Palace were becoming very well supported by then and relegation wasn't really a hurdle to that support. It's just that that first game in the third was a true opportunity to galvanise that feeling and support that was growing along with the publicity that Malcolm Allison brought with him.
Really interesting watching ITV's The Big Match Revisited, which shows a Palace/Brighton encounter at the Goldstone in that fabled 1976/7 season. The commentator falls short from calling it a rivalry (from memory) but remarks on the size of the crowd. Mullery and Vennables on the sofa afterwards is interesting!



Fantastic insight from all of you who have posted by the way. Would love to see as many of you there for the talk as possible. There'll be a Q and A session after where your nostalgic memories of past encounters would be very much welcomed.
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Old 11-06-2021, 02:40 AM
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What a treat that YouTube clip is!

- pub football really
- thank god for Hammond
- what position was Cannon playing ( happy bday!)
- when did we last see a CB score like that, nearly had another
- Brighton singing ‘your never walk alone!??’
- they needed a bigger sofa in the studio
- massive self confidence in venables
- suggest he had learnt from Allison’s mistakes
- great to see a young Kenny
- you even see sir Steve Coppell playing in the Utd game after!

What a joy that was to watch... the HFs would have made a difference to the atmos!

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Old 11-06-2021, 12:34 PM
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As I recall, the TV gantry was on scaffolding, right in the middle of the Palace support, and was getting the occasional rattling from those congregated nearest to it! A health and safety scenario that almost certainly wouldn’t have been permitted in the past 30 years, but was a feature of 1970’s life along with buses with permanently open doors and smoking in public places, etc.

So the all the singing heard was from Palace fans, including You’ll Never Walk Alone, which was fairly standard for most clubs of the era, as it was the opportunity to get the scarves out and hold them proudly overhead, a long with another favourite -

Knees Up Mother Brown, which was usually accompanied by a deliberate surge, where blokes at the top of the terracing would rush those in front, knocking several off balance if you were not in front of a metal crush barrier - another feature long forgotten and in almost unimaginable today, although similar can happen after a goal, with groups collapsing over seats to celebrate.

That terracing was also not always separated from home fans and so there were usually scuffles and various coins, stones, bottles flying in the vicinity - 70s life etc, etc!
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Old 11-06-2021, 12:56 PM
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Old 11-06-2021, 01:03 PM
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ies - I think Gillingham put Millwall way up over any dislike for us and as I witnessed their Play Off Final with Swindon in 1986 at Selhurst Park - I know how deeply the Gills hate Swindon, which makes our 44 mile rivalry with Brighton look even more sensible!
I used to go to Gills a lot as my 2nd team when living in Kent.

Maidstone was the number one rivalry but that only lasted 1989-92 and then Maidstone went bust.

'We Hate Swindon' would still get sung pretty regularly even 10 years after that 1987 play off final. A couple of times I took neutrals along and had to explain the rivalry thing when that got sung. I left there years ago so don't know if it's still a thing.
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Old 11-06-2021, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CP Satellite View Post
Knees Up Mother Brown, which was usually accompanied by a deliberate surge, where blokes at the top of the terracing would rush those in front, knocking several off balance if you were not in front of a metal crush barrier - another feature long forgotten and in almost unimaginable today,
!
Ha ha - used to love those....as long as I wasn't at the front of it! Arthur Wait Enclosure days

Losing 0-3 to QPR at home? No worries - we'll do a 'Knees Up Mother Brown' to entertain ourselves and injure a few kids at the same time! As you correctly say, it's unimaginable now but standard practice for a few years
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Old 11-06-2021, 01:17 PM
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