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  #1  
Old 25-11-2021, 12:36 PM
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Does capitalism actually work?

This is possibly politics actually, but it's economics.

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So this is yet another company that has been propped up with public cash, taxpayer money. Normally they are banks, this time just another big company. Capitalism should be about profit off your own earnings but can any of these companies even operate without cash handouts? We slash corporate tax rates and pay ever decreasing wages, cheapen everything possible and still the government hands out tax breaks and grants and sweeteners. Do most companies even make their own money anymore? This isn't really capitalism as I understand it.

Adlerhorst needs to explain.
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  #2  
Old 25-11-2021, 12:42 PM
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It’s already been explained on this thread

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I saw the £1.7bn thing yesterday evening and laughed. So a stupid government intervention into a competitive market that protects people who can already afford to pay market price, will not only mean that everyone has to pay more in the future because of less competition, but the state now has to pay the best part of £2bn as well.

This was a very popular policy with the electorate. Labour pushed it to start with and eventually the Tories jumped in when they saw it was popular. Well done everyone. You were told what would happen, and it’s now happened. You should be rejoicing.
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Old 25-11-2021, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
This is possibly politics actually, but it's economics.

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So this is yet another company that has been propped up with public cash, taxpayer money. Normally they are banks, this time just another big company. Capitalism should be about profit off your own earnings but can any of these companies even operate without cash handouts? We slash corporate tax rates and pay ever decreasing wages, cheapen everything possible and still the government hands out tax breaks and grants and sweeteners. Do most companies even make their own money anymore? This isn't really capitalism as I understand it.

Adlerhorst needs to explain.

The crisis in the energy markets leading to these companies failing was caused by government interfering in capitalism. If the government had not intervened with the price cap and let a capitalist market define its own price points, they would not be getting involved now.

You should be asking is government intervention in markets works!
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Old 25-11-2021, 12:51 PM
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There is no issues with government intervening with markets. That’s literally the point of government. But to do it stupidly because that stupid thing is popular is insane. Protect people who need protecting. Most of us did not need protecting.
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Old 25-11-2021, 12:59 PM
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So, thanks to Gonzo pointing it out, it's not government intervention but incompetence on the part of the Tories. That's nice.


Honestly I only posted it because I despair at this lot pissing our money up the wall, or rather, borrowing even more. It's a magic money tree.
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  #6  
Old 25-11-2021, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
The crisis in the energy markets leading to these companies failing was caused by government interfering in capitalism. If the government had not intervened with the price cap and let a capitalist market define its own price points, they would not be getting involved now.

You should be asking is government intervention in markets works!
That's right mate. The government should keep it's nose out. In fact the schools, roads, health and police should be left to the market to find the most efficient solutions. Look at the banks the last 20 years to see how free markets run so efficiently for society.
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  #7  
Old 25-11-2021, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
So, thanks to Gonzo pointing it out, it's not government intervention but incompetence on the part of the Tories. That's nice.


Honestly I only posted it because I despair at this lot pissing our money up the wall, or rather, borrowing even more. It's a magic money tree.
It’s not just the Tories. Labour were pushing for this and it was popular. The Tories knew it was stupid, but eventually jumped on board because it was popular.

This isn’t stupid implementation, it’s a stupid policy full stop. I suppose the real question here is whether we should be more negative towards Labour for promoting an idiotic policy without realising it was idiotic, or the Tories for implementing something they knew to be idiotic because it was popular.

I’m very much in a plague on both their houses place.
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Old 25-11-2021, 01:14 PM
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I mean, it’s not perfect. But it sure beats the other options.
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Old 25-11-2021, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
So, thanks to Gonzo pointing it out, it's not government intervention but incompetence on the part of the Tories. That's nice.


Honestly I only posted it because I despair at this lot pissing our money up the wall, or rather, borrowing even more. It's a magic money tree.
Who proposed the price cap?

In 2019 were labour campaigning to remove it? No they wanted to strengthen it and save homeowners more money!

So if the Tories has lost the last election it would not have changed the current energy crisis, the companies would still have gone bust. The likely difference would have been that it would have been used to nationalise the failing companies and all 3m customers would now be in a nationalised energy company, all be subsidised by the tax payer.

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Old 25-11-2021, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Itís not just the Tories. Labour were pushing for this and it was popular. The Tories knew it was stupid, but eventually jumped on board because it was popular.

This isnít stupid implementation, itís a stupid policy full stop. I suppose the real question here is whether we should be more negative towards Labour for promoting an idiotic policy without realising it was idiotic, or the Tories for implementing something they knew to be idiotic because it was popular.

Iím very much in a plague on both their houses place.
Did you thumb you nose at me?
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  #11  
Old 25-11-2021, 02:14 PM
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Apparently we are all capitalists if we own things, and anyway if you have to complain about capitalism you need to be taught a lesson about your place in the natural order.
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Old 25-11-2021, 05:22 PM
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it works if you have the balls to take a risk or if you don't mind screwing people. Used to be that hard work got you there but no longer
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Old 25-11-2021, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I H8 CWEED View Post
I mean, itís not perfect. But it sure beats the other options.
Well.it depends what you mean by capitalism, it's a broad church. The biggest myth is that it's a choice between free market moneytrism or Soviet Style communism. Neither are good options for a functional society.

There's an awful lot of options in between.
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Old 25-11-2021, 06:27 PM
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No. HTH.
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Old 25-11-2021, 06:32 PM
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No. HTH.
Agreed. Close thread.
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Old 25-11-2021, 06:34 PM
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it works if you have the balls to take a risk or if you don't mind screwing people. Used to be that hard work got you there but no longer
Or you earn money the old fashioned way... you inherit it!
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Old 25-11-2021, 07:34 PM
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Used to be that hard work got you there but no longer
When has that ever really been true?
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Old 25-11-2021, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Who proposed the price cap?

In 2019 were labour campaigning to remove it? No they wanted to strengthen it and save homeowners more money!

So if the Tories has lost the last election it would not have changed the current energy crisis, the companies would still have gone bust. The likely difference would have been that it would have been used to nationalise the failing companies and all 3m customers would now be in a nationalised energy company, all be subsidised by the tax payer.

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^^^ So tory that when a tory policy that they implemented goes wrong it's still labour's fault

I wouldn't be surprised if labour came up with it knowing it wouldn't working but that it would be popular so BoJo would nick it.
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Old 25-11-2021, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
So, thanks to Gonzo pointing it out, it's not government intervention but incompetence on the part of the Tories. That's nice.


Honestly I only posted it because I despair at this lot pissing our money up the wall, or rather, borrowing even more. It's a magic money tree.
Is this a post from 2009?
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Old 25-11-2021, 09:38 PM
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Is always the losses that are socialised.
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