Do you support the rail strikes?

[cockneyrebel]

Simple question, wondered what views were on here.

[adrenalin john]

I don't know enough about what the union/managemsnt demands and negotiations to date have been to have a meaningful opinion.

I suspect the governing (sic) kleptocracy are rather keen on them though as it plays in to their culture war save big dog and his barking pack agenda.

In general people only strike when they feel they have no other option

[brighton_eagle]

I'm generally supportive of strike action, probably because I'm a bit of a lefty, but I'm not sure in this case. A lot of other sectors get paid less on average so I don't imagine they'll get a lot of sympathy right now, and everyone is struggling at the moment (obviously I'm not including the very wealthy). I don't imagine many people who rely on trains to get to their lower paid jobs will be very happy.

[Marksf]

Originally Posted by brighton_eagle

I'm generally supportive of strike action, probably because I'm a bit of a lefty, but I'm not sure in this case. A lot of other sectors get paid less on average so I don't imagine they'll get a lot of sympathy right now, and everyone is struggling at the moment (obviously I'm not including the very wealthy). I don't imagine many people who rely on trains to get to their lower paid jobs will be very happy.

This is the problem, 'thinking' like this. Look at these guys getting paid a wage you can actually live and thrive on, the bastards, and they didn't even do a media studies degree from a poly.

[cockneyrebel]

Originally Posted by Marksf

This is the problem, 'thinking' like this. Look at these guys getting paid a wage you can actually live and thrive on, the bastards, and they didn't even do a media studies degree from a poly.

Spot on.

Firstly many of the strikers are on relatively low wages.

Secondly it seems that anyone who gets to half decent wage is then being told sorry it’s unreasonable to protect it.

All the whole profits for many companies go through the roof and the super rich continue to add billions to their wealth.

Many people in this country are complete door mats. The left coalition in France that’s neck and neck with Macron is demanding 15% wage increases and price freezes.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by brighton_eagle

I'm generally supportive of strike action, probably because I'm a bit of a lefty, but I'm not sure in this case. A lot of other sectors get paid less on average so I don't imagine they'll get a lot of sympathy right now, and everyone is struggling at the moment (obviously I'm not including the very wealthy). I don't imagine many people who rely on trains to get to their lower paid jobs will be very happy.

Pretty much how I see it. The case might be legitimate, but the timing is not good.

[Mr Mojo Risin]

I sympathise greatly with the reasons for the strike. It isn't just about money either, it would be criminal to strip trains services of guards, remove ticket offices etc.

However, I'm not sure if striking is the way to achieve this. There are two types of commuter - the one who can also work from home and the other who needs the train to go to work or school. Strikes are less effective against the first type, particularly post Covid, and hugely damaging to the second. It is likely to reduce sympathy rather than increase it.

As I posted on the Southern Railway thread, there are better ways to keep commuters onside and hit the employers where it really hurts. Leave all ticket barriers open and let everyone travel for free.

[Johnybegood]

Originally Posted by brighton_eagle

I'm generally supportive of strike action, probably because I'm a bit of a lefty, but I'm not sure in this case. A lot of other sectors get paid less on average so I don't imagine they'll get a lot of sympathy right now, and everyone is struggling at the moment (obviously I'm not including the very wealthy). I don't imagine many people who rely on trains to get to their lower paid jobs will be very happy.

I was thinking along these lines until i Iistened to the various sides this morning. Grant Shapps was relying on the argument of £16billion paid to the rail industry during covid and that unions walked out on talks to attend a TUC rally. The second is reportedly untrue.

The first is contentious as the rail industry was required to remain open despite lockdowns so that key workers could get to work, so the reduced passenger numbers and order to continue working despite fewer customers was under instruction of the govt but is being used now to drive a trojan horse through, pay, employment conditions, safety, and jobs.

The other furlough payments were paid to private companies, now subject to takeover offers and where management are looking to create new employment contracts raising the working week from 35hrs to 40 or 42hrs, safety staff e.g. guards would be redundant and not just a pay rise way below last years cost of living increase I.e. 7% (although inflation currently 10%) but effectively a pay cut due to increased hours

Comparing relatively higher pay for e.g. train drivers is misleading and any worker who has taken on commitments with contracts/wages e.g mortgages kids etc would not accept the derailing to those commitments

Wage cuts, job losses, less safety, payments to shareholders, agency workers they are able to hire/fire, govt lying, etc all sounds very similar to P&O shenanigans to me ....so ofcourse they should take action

[GTR]

Originally Posted by Mr Mojo Risin

I.

As I posted on the Southern Railway thread, there are better ways to keep commuters onside and hit the employers where it really hurts. Leave all ticket barriers open and let everyone travel for free.

I'm all for innovative ways to get the point across but going on strke carries legal protection whereas what you suggest could be construed as misconduct and lead to disciplinary action.

[mushroom]

Originally Posted by brighton_eagle

I'm generally supportive of strike action, probably because I'm a bit of a lefty, but I'm not sure in this case. A lot of other sectors get paid less on average so I don't imagine they'll get a lot of sympathy right now, and everyone is struggling at the moment (obviously I'm not including the very wealthy). I don't imagine many people who rely on trains to get to their lower paid jobs will be very happy.

What sectors get paid less than the people that are striking?
And is it a race to the bottom?

[mushroom]

Originally Posted by Maz

Pretty much how I see it. The case might be legitimate, but the timing is not good.

… should they wait until after the people have been laid off… ?

[N Herts Eagle]

The lessons not learnt. Covid affected the railways and does to today. 75% use meaning a loss in revenue from pre covid. Right now fuel prices rocketing the alternative of using public transport must be on many peoples mind. Oh look no trains. Sure go on strike but technology and the changing face of the world today would suggest only one thing. The faster demise of the railways in their current format. Its the old battles of the 70s 80s industries changing and instead if realising changes and practices had to change the unions took on the employers. The resulting devestation to the manufacturing industries in this country are well documented.

[mushroom]

[Wolfnipplechips]

Originally Posted by Johnybegood

I was thinking along these lines until i Iistened to the various sides this morning. Grant Shapps was relying on the argument of £16billion paid to the rail industry during covid and that unions walked out on talks to attend a TUC rally. The second is reportedly untrue.

The first is contentious as the rail industry was required to remain open despite lockdowns so that key workers could get to work, so the reduced passenger numbers and order to continue working despite fewer customers was under instruction of the govt but is being used now to drive a trojan horse through, pay, employment conditions, safety, and jobs.

The other furlough payments were paid to private companies, now subject to takeover offers and where management are looking to create new employment contracts raising the working week from 35hrs to 40 or 42hrs, safety staff e.g. guards would be redundant and not just a pay rise way below last years cost of living increase I.e. 7% (although inflation currently 10%) but effectively a pay cut due to increased hours

Comparing relatively higher pay for e.g. train drivers is misleading and any worker who has taken on commitments with contracts/wages e.g mortgages kids etc would not accept the derailing to those commitments

Wage cuts, job losses, less safety, payments to shareholders, agency workers they are able to hire/fire, govt lying, etc all sounds very similar to P&O shenanigans to me ....so ofcourse they should take action

+ 1

[cockneyrebel]

Bit depressing the poll.

It’s basically people saying workers should just roll over and take the brunt of the cost of living crisis while profits booms in many industries.

If a strong union like this fails the wider consequences are grim.

I don’t know what people are suggesting? Just take pay cuts and all the things listed in Johnybegoods excellent post.

[RazorsEdge]

Originally Posted by cockneyrebel

Bit depressing the poll.

It’s basically people saying workers should just roll over and take the brunt of the cost of living crisis while profits booms in many industries.

If a strong union like this fails the wider consequences are grim.

I don’t know what people are suggesting? Just take pay cuts and all the things listed in Johnybegoods excellent post.

At the mo 3:1 against the strike and it is depressing I agree

[west country boy]

It was very daft to schedule the strikes when exams are still going on.

[Wolfnipplechips]

Isn’t the point of strikes to inconvenience people?

In order to get your grievances noticed…

[west country boy]

It's probably not the best way to get the young folk onside is it? Especially after two years (or whatever) of no GCSEs or A levels.

edit - also, Wanksock got himself noticed but everyone thought he was just a c~nt

[mrfenandes]

Originally Posted by cockneyrebel

Bit depressing the poll.

It’s basically people saying workers should just roll over and take the brunt of the cost of living crisis while profits booms in many industries.

If a strong union like this fails the wider consequences are grim.

I don’t know what people are suggesting? Just take pay cuts and all the things listed in Johnybegoods excellent post.

Just goes to show how much of a hold the press have over people.

I grew up despising strike action because I was cucked in to it by The Sun/general press in this country etc from a young age. I can see why people think the way they do because I was also indoctrinated to believe that money will trickle down, we're all in this together, the better big business does the better we all do, things are as fair as can be etc etc etc etc. We are gaslit from birth to believe in the system we live in and everything else is dangerous. Load of shyte.

Very little pro-worker pieces these days and the problem is, they've also cucked people in to believing the press is left-biased which is actually ******* hilarious. And only part of that is because people don't seem to understand the massive difference between leftism and social liberalism.

We get the society we deserve tbf and I have to say CR I don't know why you trying to change peoples minds; it must drive you mad to try and convince people to care more about the welfare of society as a whole instead of short term self-interest and interests of the rich.

(Funny how people feel very differently about it when it's Ron Noades/Terry Venables/Simon Jordan though...)